Backing vocals question

[Starsailor]

Okay- so I was listening to Little One as I drove home tonight, and I started to wonder: are the backing vocal lyrics the same as the lead? I know most of them are, but in some places it almost sounds like different words are being sung, although I can't tell if it's just my imagination. Has anyone else heard this?

Just curious... I'm always fascinated with the way Elliott used harmonies and overdubs, etc. And if the lyrics are different, I'd love to figure out where they change.

[CanopuS]

Agreed, the backing vocals are singing different lyrics. At least in the last verse they are, although they correlate again in the final chorus. This makes is much more difficult to decipher what they are, and what the main vocals are singing!

[kevinlong206]

happens a bit in coast to coast as well.. not nearly as much though. i wonder if it was intentional, or if it was due to those tracks being the only tracks available when they were mixing it.

[CanopuS]

I originally thought that in Little One the backing vocals were just the first verse pasted in again because of a lack of backing vocals for the final verse. However, the fact that they join up again for the chorus makes me doubt this. Still might be possible though...

[timmy]

From what I can hear the first time it happens is when Elliott is singing:

"One hit wouldn't hurt a bit, I'll stay down, see what's there to ???" (1.55)

It's hard to work out what Elliott actually says, as well as what the backing says. To me it sounds like Elliott sings "die" but that doesn't make much sense ... whereas maybe the backing sings "what's there today"?

I need headphones. Apologies if this is woefully inaccurate.

[Starsailor]

I need headphones too. And I don't have any. *woe*

Good to know that I'm not crazy though, and that other people hear it too. I really want to know those backing lyrics now!

[kevinlong206]

Originally Posted by timmy

From what I can hear the first time it happens is when Elliott is singing:

"One hit wouldn't hurt a bit, I'll stay down, see what's there to ???" (1.55)

It's hard to work out what Elliott actually says, as well as what the backing says. To me it sounds like Elliott sings "die" but that doesn't make much sense ... whereas maybe the backing sings "what's there today"?

I need headphones. Apologies if this is woefully inaccurate.

i thought he was saying "sleep the rest of the day"

[timmy]

Like I say i'm not sure ... but I just can't hear "sleep" and I can't hear Elliott saying "today" ... to me it's more an "i" sound rather than an "ay" sound. If that makes sense ...

Also i've realised in the previous bit I think Elliott says "go down" and the backing says "stay down" ...

[Starsailor]

I'm a-gonna have to keep listening to this one tonight... Gonna try and figure it out...

Gonna keep wishing for dem earphones...

Dammit.

[Mister Grieves]

There was an interesting thread about this awhile back. Someone raised the backing vocals and everyone seemed to come to a conclusion on most of (if not all) of the different backing vocals. I don't think the thread exists anymore, though.

[sombre winds]

Bumbletort will have them. Probably. Or Paul Kemp or Nihru.

[bumbletort]

Originally Posted by sombre winds

Bumbletort will have them. Probably. Or Paul Kemp or Nihru.

Alas, no. He won't. I have studiously avoided lyrics from FABOTH. That's not to say that I haven't amassed a great deal of interpretations, but delving through it all is something I don't have the nerve for quite yet. I'm thinking in a couple months of making a run at the whole thing.

Everyone's invited.

[timmy]

Noooo. I like doing that kind of thing ... but am too feeble to start it alone. Well, make sure to make a big deal of it when you do start, so I don't miss it

[Molly!]

I shall try. I've already deciphered bits of the king's crossing intro... with a little help from our friends

i'll listen to little one later and see what i can hear.

[bumbletort]

Originally Posted by timmy

Noooo. I like doing that kind of thing ... but am too feeble to start it alone. Well, make sure to make a big deal of it when you do start, so I don't miss it

I will make a Very Big Deal of it when the time comes.

You will be there, of course.

[Niiru]

Methodology. I listened to the song once through, marking down spots where the backing vocals were noticably different. I created a second track with just left channel (no bass, backing vocals mixed in louder). I then listened to the spots at full speed and time stretched and figured out roughly the lyrics.

This track is obviously cobbled together from at least two different demos. The end of the song sounds like it might be the earlier of the two. The first half (up until 1:32) has that destinct latter basement feel (funky guitar). The funky guitar cuts out rather abruptly and it's fairly clear that the place it was merged was done more to keep the vocal flow than to keep the backing track flow.

Format of the below bits
timestamp
lead vocals
(backing vocals)

1:39-1:44
Even still can't sleep
(never go)

2:02 - 2:10
Go Down
(stay down)
Sleep rest of the time
(rest of the day)

2:11.332 - 2:26.564
If it's good you (two) won't know and I won't know about ay-ah I'm dyin'
(if that's goooood)(won't be)(won't care)('bout ah ah ah die)

Take it with a grain of salt, I am no expert, your mileage may vary, etc etc etc.

[bumbletort]

Way to go, Neil. You continue to awe.

[Starsailor]

Originally posted by Niiru
Methodology. I listened to the song once through, marking down spots where the backing vocals were noticably different. I created a second track with just left channel (no bass, backing vocals mixed in louder). I then listened to the spots at full speed and time stretched and figured out roughly the lyrics.

This track is obviously cobbled together from at least two different demos. The end of the song sounds like it might be the earlier of the two. The first half (up until 1:32) has that destinct latter basement feel (funky guitar). The funky guitar cuts out rather abruptly and it's fairly clear that the place it was merged was done more to keep the vocal flow than to keep the backing track flow.

Format of the below bits
timestamp
lead vocals
(backing vocals)

1:39-1:44
Even still can't sleep
(never go)

2:02 - 2:10
Go Down
(stay down)
Sleep rest of the time
(rest of the day)

2:11.332 - 2:26.564
If it's good you (two) won't know and I won't know about ay-ah I'm dyin'
(if that's goooood)(won't be)(won't care)('bout ah ah ah die)

Take it with a grain of salt, I am no expert, your mileage may vary, etc etc etc.

Wow... you really put some time and thought into this!! Hell of a job, Niiru! Thanks for chiming in here.

Quite interesting. That last bit was the section where the discrepancies really stood out to me- but I'd never noticed that the song was derived from two demos. Very cool indeed... of course, now it makes me wonder if this was another instance of the song lyrics developing as Elliott recorded the song, or if the places where the lyrics deviate were always intended.

Ah, Elliott. Your music continues to make me think!

And Bumble... I await your thread delving the FABOTH lyrics whenever you feel up to it. It sounds intriguing.

[Molly!]

Make a vow of faith.
Pay it down, pay it down.

I'm the Wolfman...
Jump outta my tree.

-Some of the intro to King's X-ing

[/irrelevance]

[Billy Shears]

So if it was constructed out of two demos, was it Elliott who did this or was it those who ultimately put the album together?

If it was the latter, the question is, why was it included on Basement? I happen to really like this song, but Elliott, I believe, rarely played it live; if he himself did not produce a finished studio version, why did it seem necessary to go to such great lengths to put this track on the album?

[Billy Shears]

I've kind of tried to figure out the King's Crossing intro, too...I think it's "Jump out my tree."

[Molly!]

Originally Posted by BabyLando

I've kind of tried to figure out the King's Crossing intro, too...I think it's "Jump out my tree."

Yeah, it is. Typo.

[Billy Shears]

Okay, I'll complete my trifecta of posts, since we're on this Basement lyrics kick:

In Coast to Coast, observe the following.

Still you're keeping me around
Till I finally drag us both down
Throwin feathers out your hat
Yes I believe
[AND THEN HERE'S WHERE THE BACKING VOCAL AND LEAD VOCAL DIVERGE, AND I THINK THIS IS WHAT HE SAYS]
This conscious? act
That's where it's at

Live he says "where it's at." This is a track that I believe he completed and mixed before his death. So it seems he was clearly experimenting with the double vocal thing.

Just a thought,
Lando

[bumbletort]

Originally Posted by BabyLando

I happen to really like this song

I really like this song, too. Isn't it interesting how often you read that people think it's one of the lesser songs on FABOTH? Anything with these lines....

If I seem to be reckless with myself, it’s the fault of no one.
All things have a place under the moon as well as the sun.

[Billy Shears]

If I seem to be reckless with myself it's the fault of no one.
All things have a place under the moon as well as the sun.

Those are two of the best lines in the thing. It reminds me of a line from a Daniel Johnston song: "All things must be both good and bad, it's written in the stars."

I also really love these lines...there's almost a wry humor to them...it's hard to explain:

Dream new music to calm down,
Stay down, and keep evil away

[Starsailor]

When I first heard this song, it was a live recording, and I didn't warm to it right away. But when I really started listening to it, I was amazed. The lyrics are about as strong as any he wrote, at least in my opinion. It just spoke to me, and I was really happy when it was released on Basement.

I had no idea that people viewed this as a "lesser" song on the album; to me, it's always been a high point (admittedly, in an album of high points). Among other things, I love this idea of divergent lyrical lines. I hadn't noticed it in Coast To Coast, but I'll have to go back and take a listen now. How cool would that be...

[Niiru]

If it was the latter, the question is, why was it included on Basement? I happen to really like this song, but Elliott, I believe, rarely played it live; if he himself did not produce a finished studio version, why did it seem necessary to go to such great lengths to put this track on the album?

He didn't play most of the songs that made it on FABOTH live often (or at all) in the last few shows. I think if you judge by his 2003 shows FABOTH would be an eight-track. :P

You'd lose Let's Get Lost, Don't Go Down, Last Hour, Little One, probably coast to coast (2 completed and 1 aborted times out of 18 or so shows in 2003? i think he played I figured you out more times in 2003.) and probably somebody's baby (4 or 5 times?)

I would argue that it made it on because there was a posibility of making a relatively complete sounding song by combining two demos, and there was probably an elliott written track list they were working off of that said elliott intended that song on the album. truth is, we don't know for sure. but it sounds good until you listen to it with headphones on and gawk at it for a few minutes, so more power to them and good job.

[sombre winds]

Originally Posted by BabyLando

So if it was constructed out of two demos, was it Elliott who did this or was it those who ultimately put the album together?

If it was the latter, the question is, why was it included on Basement? I happen to really like this song, but Elliott, I believe, rarely played it live; if he himself did not produce a finished studio version, why did it seem necessary to go to such great lengths to put this track on the album?

That's a big if. Elliott did play it live several times and I doubt that anyone else would join together those demos. My memory is that it was one of the newer songs rather than an old one he recycled for the basement cd.

But "Niiru" you think it was done after he died?

[Niiru]

Originally Posted by sombre winds

That's a big if. Elliott did play it live several times and I doubt that anyone else would join together those demos. My memory is that it was one of the newer songs rather than an old one he recycled for the basement cd.

well, 'newer' as in 2001, but yeah, i guess compared to memory lane, kings crossing, last hour, and shooting star it's a toddler.

it's a rather pointless discussion to have in the first place though as none of us are ever going to come to consensus

[Niiru]

Originally Posted by sombre winds

But "Niiru" you think it was done after he died?

I would bet money on it. Open it up in winamp or what ever player you use and jump to 1:28 (in winamp, right click by the time slider bar and select "jump to time") you will hear it. you'll hear a gap where the backing tracks other than the bass guitar suddenly stop and then resume minus funky guitar.