Almanac of "Elliott's Archives and Unreleased Songs" thread

[Obstinate]

So I figured, since most people aren't willing to sift through 30+ pages and 900+ posts, I'll go through and loosely organize the juicy details into a simple and easy-to-follow document. I did half of it about six months ago and picked it up about an hour ago. I just felt there was too much interesting informatio to just say "Search through the thread!" So here it is. I tried to use as little paraphrasing as possible, so most everything here is literally copied and pasted from Larry's posts. Would someone be interested in cleaning this up and posting it on some Elliott site? If so, PM me and I'll send you the document. The categories are very loose as well. I hope you guys that weren't around enjoy this information just as much as we did back in November. But here it goes:



Alternate Titles
"No Name #5" (I think that's right) was "Gone at Last" up until release. "Happiness" was "Back in the Day" on the 98 tour. Things like that, sorta obvious...

Alternate Versions
"There are two version of "Cecilia/Amanda" that I know of... "
"Baby Britain"-There's a version where he overdubs more guitars on the Lucky 3 take but no vox.
"Brand New Game"- the Jackpot! version is post XO sessions. I have 3 versions, but the FABOTH version is Abbey Road with more recent overdubs as far as I can tell.
"Coast to Coast"-It's on a reel with "Either/Or" songs but I'm not totally sure when it was recorded. The reel originally said "lots of time left" and then that's crossed out and "Coast to Coast demo" is written. Seems suspect, like it may not be from 1996.
I found "Easy Way Out" - on a reel from Either/Or sessions, along with "Going Nowhere" and "No Name #6". I think some lyrics changed, but mostly it's the same. A little slower.
There are 100s of songs that are interesting, as in alternate version, instrumental takes, live versions, etc. But not the amount of unreleased, strong, unique songs that made up New Moon.
"Punch and Judy"-I also found a version of "Punch & Judy" that starts with that guitar figure and then settle into the version we know.
"Splitsville"-The song was around as far back as 1993 though. The 2 parts of the song as heard in "Southlander" are 2 diff takes, and the "Outro" was mixed for possible FABOTH use. This I do know.
"Happiness" Single (Outro)-It's music from "Take a Fall" by Murder of Crows from THe Greenhouse. That's some digging....
There are some rough DAT edits that have a different order for "Either/Or". I'm not sure if that is info I can pass out, though I did give some alternate "XO" info to Matt LeMay! Songs get a little confused in that era about whether it's even Heatmiser playing on a track or not - in fact I'll be picking Tony and Neil's brains quite soon to determine a few cases. I'd say both records could have gone many different ways, but I like them both a lot myself.

Basement
Anything recorded Basement era not on the album, is owned by Interscope. Contrary to what he might have said at the time, Elliott was only granted a single disc/album of material outside of his contract for FABOTH.
Dreamworks gave him a sabbatical for a single disc album.
I do believe Elliott was in debt to the label. I find it hard to believe they'd be thinking "money" if his name even comes up. Just a thought I had.
Jon Brion tapes-I believe some of these are already on FABOTH? I think the tapes are accounted for...
A lot of the "FABOTH" songs exist in multiple (and sometimes unfinished) attempts over the years. I will attest that the versions on the CD are the best I've heard for sure.
See You In Heaven-I will say that I'd love to find such a thing, and Rob Schnapf told me there's a melody and lyrics. Frustrating.

Future
I would like to see some of this stuff come out, so I will be showing the family what they have and make suggestions. I imagine there could be more stuff available some day. It's certainly not up to me to say yes or no, but I can help by showing them what has surfaced.

Heatmiser
Very confusing, as there are multiple copies of the DA-88 tapes! There are some unreleased songs and alternate takes. Wish I could say more than that. Neil and Tony have been helpful sorting things out, and are both great guys. Sam is great too, by the way! I've never met Brandt.
Seems like they maybe have recorded a few versions of Mic City Sons songs!

Live
I know there are tapes of many of the shows with Quasi backing him, and some sound pretty good. And I know Interscope had and abandoned a live CD project a few years back.
(Covers) Bowie's "Rock and Roll Suicide" was attempted around "Either/Or" tracking era (I think for Undercover records' "Crash Course for the Ravers" CD) but the vox were not finished. I can't think of any other studio covers I've heard!

[Obstinate]

Missing Tapes
There are some missing tapes, like one 1/2" reel from S/T. There are some tapes that I know where they are and will get soon.
The cassette for "Speed Trials" would be nice. I don't think that's around.
And Tom Rothrock used a digital device called "SPECTRAL" to add overdubs to Mic City Sons and to mix some ES stuff. Those tracks are gone for sure. That scares me!

New Moon
1. (Extra songs) I think New Moon works pretty well as is. It feels like what I've found since is a little more random, which might be kinda fun if it's understood not to be such a thematic release as New Moon.
2. I think it sold okay. I don't really know a lot about that part! I'll put it this way: no one is breathing down my neck to uncover more stuff or anything! "Hey, we need 'More Moon' now, kid."

Personal
Regarding his hair: I stayed in the same hotel room as him for a week in 1998 during XO tracking. He would wake up, take a shower, and for half an hour or so his hair would look "clean". Then it would start to take on that "oily" sheen and would look like that the rest of the day. Obviously there was nothing he could do about this, but when people make comments inferring that he didn't bathe or such (though that had happened at times too) I wonder if this hair thing was leading them on. You know, that stuff that people refer to about someone that they really have no control over. Sucks.
(Food Choices)-All I remember is a lot of sandwiches. He didn't want pizza.

Recording Gear
Mics Elliott Had through 1997:
Shure SM57
Shure SM58
Langevin CR3A
Audio Technica Pro37R
ElectroVoice RE20 (purchased in early 1997)
At the Heatmiser House he had access to Tony Lash's mics. Plus Roba and Tom had other stuff for Either/Or.
Actually I remember "XO" tracks where there were two 24-track tape decks synced - this would give you 46 tracks (2 for sync/SMPTE code). Mostly I think this was done for the string overdubs.
A lot of the stuff from S/T and Either/Or (and New Moon) was 1/2" 8-track, 15 ips, no noise reduction - on a Tascam 38. It's not the best deck in the world. If you want a 1/2" 8-track deck buy an Otari MX-5050 8-track.
Speed Trials was recorded on 4-track cassette in 1996. S/T was all recorded on 1/2" 8-track in 1994-5.
The largest number of tracks recorded for one song is 24, for "almost everything from XO on"

[Obstinate]

Recording
-Not a whole lot of [talking before or after main piece]. Usually he's recording alone pre Dreamworks so there's no one to talk to. I listen for clues in some of that, to hear who else might be there. I wish more stuff had dates and places written down or track sheets or something. I have to guess a lot about time periods and stuff. Mostly very educated guesses but still, I hate guessing and try to note a guess in the records.
-As far as rooms, all over the place and not always in a home.
-(On the subject of recording the drums in "Fear City" with Tony Lash) I really don't think so. Nothing indicates it would have been, in fact most facts point away from that idea.
-(On the subject of Elliott humming melodies rather than using words) Never heard this. Different lyrics, yes.
-(Answering if Elliott recorded songs in different keys) Not that I remember. Rob and Tom may have seen this, but really I only recorded a few songs in the scheme of things. When I find multiple versions, even from diff eras, they seem to stick to the same key.
-I know ID was recorded [before Sorry My Mistake] - in fact that session was to generate b-sides for XO! The session generated the "Our Thing" instrumental and "Happiness" began there but not finished. Obviously Rob Schnapf and Tom Rothrock were a bit surprised at the quality and made the right decision!
-I wish we'd fixed a few vocal doubling problems on "Miss Misery" (which I told him to do at the time and he said no)
-He recorded [Speed Trials] in Joanna's apartment while she was asleep, so the instruments are barely played with any force and the vocals are quiet. Plus the frequency range of the 4-track (and a cheap mic) make these recordings sound different.
-The reel with "Go By" from New Moon has Alameda and Pictures of Me on it.
-The Miss Misery (early version) has a 'demo' of "Bled White", "First Timer" and "All Cleaned Out" from New Moon.
-For "Amity" most of the original Jackpot take was kept. Bass was redone, and b vox recut too. And strings added, of course. But the vocals with the printed delay were kept! I remember laughing at Rob and Tom because they had to deal with it. The hi-hat bleed in the snare mic was so nuts that the snare was sampled from the ride part and flown in for oomph.
-I know I recorded a few versions of "Bled White" and one we labeled "Crushed Blind", though it felt like a temporary title at the time.
-"No Confidence Man"-The 7" has a funny history. Apparently Pete thought they were recording together and Elliott thought they were delivering separate songs. It seems Elliott had a song ready (though I've seen no evidence that it was "No Confidence Man") and ended up recording with Pete at Sam and Janet's (the same gear that produced the first 7" by the Maroons at Laundry Rules, and Motorgoat and Quasi of course).
-Most of the pre 1998 stuff [Elliott recorded] alone, except for "Either/Or" stuff what Rob and Tom. Plus the Heatmiser stuff was with Tony Lash or Rob and Tom. I guess he did a few tracks with me too.
-Either/Or era is the most tracks being recorded. S/T was basically 3 reels, almost all of which is released. E/O is about 8 reels, a cassette, Da-88 tapes, etc. Unreal. No wonder it was hard to pick the order. It seems like FABOTH generated a lot too. And Figure 8.
-"No More", the murky version with the synth strings, was recorded between mid 1995 to mid 1996 at Heatmiser House. There is a much nicer mix - the first time I heard the bootleg version I was getting ready to tackle "New Moon" and I thought, "If this is what I have to deal with then I dunno." Turns out I had a personal copy on DAT and hadn't heard it in years...
-Another funny thing is that we tracked Pete and Elliott doing backing vox on "Amity", only to have Elliott replace them all later for "XO". Pete's a great guy, and one of my fave gtr players for sure. Check out "Sweet Ona Rose" - one of the better CDs I've worked on I think.
-"Taking A Fall"-I wasn't quite sure what we were working on, as he'd started tracking XO I'm pretty sure. I figured if something really great happened it might make the album. We tracked "Oh Well, Okay" and "Taking a Fall" that day. 03/31/1998
-When we did "Miss Misery" Elliott recorded the music, left town for whatever, then dropped back in and did the vocals. I barely remembered recording the music part. As you know, "A Silver Chain" is a good example of a song that was recorded but vocals never laid down. There's a few that pop up where I know he should have recorded vocals - "Burned Out, Still Glowing", "True Believer", "See You in Heaven", "Crazy Fucker". There's probably more not coming to mind. The confusing ones are are tracks meant to stay instrumental, maybe? Who knows. Some carry enough interest to warrant a possible release someday. Others, maybe not... (NOTE: "Crazy Fucker" and "Burned Out, Still Glowing" have already leaked)

[Obstinate]

Storage
-"the multitracks, and mixes, and live DATs, and any CD-Rs and everything has been collected in this RAID drive"
-"All original tapes are stored in a special data storage place at proper humidity and temperature. All these tapes (and whatnot) have been digitized and stored on a RAID array, which is what I do the cataloging from. Multitracks are stored as 96 Khz/24 bit wave files. Mixes are stored as 192 kHz, 24 bit wave files. is this over most folks' heads? We're assuming these formats will be around a while. But remember, the analog reels of stuff are still intact."
-"We're using FileMaker Pro for those that have office-type backgrounds. It's pretty cool how it works, linking to track sheet scans and such. Tedious as hell to fill out some times though."

Strange Parallel
(Recording Brand New Game)-Mostly for real. We recorded the song that day, and never went back to it at all. It was only done for that shoot.

Stranger Than Fiction
(After being asked what tapes he'd been given)-Some college 4-track stuff. Some stuff with Tony Lash during college. Not sure if there's any STF. I have some cassettes to sort out still!

Missing or in Interscope Vaults (Confirmed)
-"A Silver Chain" (vocals) and "Sorry My Mistake" (vocals): I recorded "A Silver Chain" on a day where he did a bunch of XO demos, and this one he didn't sing on. Frustrating, huh?
-"Echo Park" : supposedly might exist from the XO sessions. I've never heard it.
-"Flowers For Charlie": I've only heard live versions. (Interscope?)
"Confusion": I've never heard one, though that may be in the Interscope vaults. Could have been tracked during Figure 8 sessions I suppose?


Missing or in Interscope Vaults (Unconfirmed)
"My New Freedom"
"You Make It Seem Like Nothing"
"Confidence Artist"

XO
Pitseleh-According to what JJ Gonson told me years ago, it was a nickname Elliott had for her. I know she was surprised to see it on the back of XO. Early mastering copies have it listed (incorrectly) as "Pitzella".

[Obstinate]

Yeah, feel free to reply by the way!

[Bimbly2]

Mods, sticky!

[14thStreet]

Thanks for this

[circuitrider87]

This is great! Thank you

[Angilbeth]

Awesome! And thanks to the mods for adding the sticky so fast

[TheKeenGuy]

"The Gondola Man"-It's music from "Take a Fall" by Murder of Crows from THe Greenhouse. That's some digging....

This is incorrect. What Larry Crane was referring to was the instrumental outro on the Happiness single that was used in place of "The Gondola Man."

[Obstinate]

Oops. Mistake corrected. I was wondering why I put it under Alternate Versions.

[leclisse]

Thanks Obstinate.


.

[LoveAndSqualor]

"Punch and Judy"-I also found a version of "Punch & Judy" that starts with that guitar figure and then settle into the version we know.

The guitar figure is the Baby Britain instrumental, right? You should make a note of that.

But thanks! This is great!

[Obstinate]

Was it? I thought he was referring to the little guitar thing in the middle of Punch and Judy.

[LoveAndSqualor]

I definitely remember him saying he found a version of Punch and Judy with the acoustic Baby Britain guitar in front of it, and how surprised he was. Although I could be wrong.

[Obstinate]

I'll check later. I remember going over that post.

[Fingers dripping ink]

Thanks for putting in the work.

[revgoozen]

this is just remarkable. it's been years since i've been back to this site, but i'm so glad that i did. really fascinating information. thanks so much!

[cl3ment1ne]

what about the song grand mal?
i find it strange that a lot of people don't seem to talk about it enough. this is probably the only song that elliott actually stated that it does exist. it was planned to be on xo (previously grand mal) and because of the grand mal the band elliott decided to kick the title out along with that song. it's probably gonna kick ass too. i mean, he named the album after it.

[lisangeles]

right on, Aaron, thanks!

[numero9]

Great thread. Wasn't "Happiness" called "Tom's Start" at one point?

[Obstinate]

Yeah, and "Back In The Day" when he played it on KCRW in '98.

[*evildewey]

thanks for this thread

i got one question though: was it ever established where and when the alternate version of 'everybody cares, everybody understands' was recorded?

it's probably been asked before but i couldn't find any info searching the board

[runnersdialzero]

Originally Posted by *evildewey

thanks for this thread

i got one question though: was it ever established where and when the alternate version of 'everybody cares, everybody understands' was recorded?

it's probably been asked before but i couldn't find any info searching the board

This version is just the XO version with an alternate vocal and an alternate mix, probably a working version.

[*evildewey]

thanks for replying! good to know

i meant the one that leaked as a 96 kbps .wma file by the way

Very cool. Thanks for this.

[livrob]

Brilliant!

Originally Posted by Obstinate

Yeah, and "Back In The Day" when he played it on KCRW in '98.

Do you have a copy of that show?, I only have a 97 KCRW show...

[*evildewey]

i think maybe he means this Drinking From Puddles show, actually

i only have that one song but the whole show isn't hard to find, here you go: http://lix.in/-64b9d9

[livrob]

Thanks!

Can't find the full show, gave it a good few searches but no downloads...

[seadragon]

Originally Posted by livrob

Thanks!

Can't find the full show, gave it a good few searches but no downloads...

I've got it, uploading it now for you I'll add the link when it's done.