Red Sox vs Yankees

[Drunkenmaster]

Five games in 4 days. Yanks take game one 12-4. I didn't see this game but what the hell happened?

[DrHibbert]

I don't know, but that blows. They're tied 5-5 in the nightcap.

[Kinbote]

What happened is the kind of thing that happens when Jason Johnson has somehow ended up in your starting rotation and your bullpen consists of Pabelbon and a thousand pounds of dead weight.

I wrote this season off weeks ago.

[Kinbote]

But I look forward to the near future. Pedroia will be up next year. And I say we just deal Coco while he still has value and let Ellsbury play: even so soon, it'll be better defense and not-a-whole-lot-worse offense.

2008, mark my words, begins a dynasty.

[Drunkenmaster]

Is Schilling injured? I don't understand why the Sox pitching has been so exploited lately? It was certainly not bad earlier in the season.

[Sick Confusion Headache]

Update: Red Sox lose once again. 13 to 5 I think?

Man I love the Yankees.

[Kinbote]

Is Schilling injured? I don't understand why the Sox pitching has been so exploited lately? It was certainly not bad earlier in the season.

Schill's fine. A couple of not-hot starts recently, but he's giving us enough. But Beckett's getting raked. Lester's piss-poor control is finally affecting his performance. Wells is finally pitching the way you'd expect a sixty-year-old orca to pitch. Let's please not even bring up Johnson and Snyder. Uck.

And, of course, center and short and catcher are offensive black holes, and there's nobody all that threatening to bat behind Manny.

Best laid plans of mice and men and all that.

[drumloops]

As a Yankee fan, I have certainly enjoyed the events of the last forty-eight hours, but also realize that the season is hardly over; there is plenty of baseball yet to be played.

[DrHibbert]

I didn't think I'd ever say this, at least not this soon, but the Red Sox OR Yankees are going to get their asses handed to them in the playoffs. Whenever they play the White Sox, Tigers, or A's.

[drumloops]

I didn't think I'd ever say this, at least not this soon, but the Red Sox OR Yankees are going to get their asses handed to them in the playoffs. Whenever they play the White Sox, Tigers, or A's.

It's certainly a possibility, given that the Tigers lead the AL in ERA (good pitching will always defeat good hitting). However, earlier this year, the Yankees went into Detroit and took three of four from the Tigers (and could/should have swept).

In any event, the AL Central is, without question, the toughest division in all of MLB.

[The Chuck]

The playoff race has some time yet to be decided, but getting tagged for 12, 14 and 13 runs in 3 games is pretty deflating. Best part is, Johnny Damon has taken it upon himself to just destroy his old team. In the first 3 games he's batting .500 with 5 runs scored, 8 RBI's and 2 Hr's. That's gotta sting.

[drumloops]

The playoff race has some time yet to be decided, but getting tagged for 12, 14 and 13 runs in 3 games is pretty deflating. Best part is, Johnny Damon has taken it upon himself to just destroy his old team. In the first 3 games he's batting .500 with 5 runs scored, 8 RBI's and 2 Hr's. That's gotta sting.

Sure, but that kind of run production will be difficult to replicate, whatwith Schilling on the mound.

[Sick Confusion Headache]

:wall: = Red Sox.

Today should be an intresting game, does anyone else have the brooms out?

[drumloops]

No baseball fan can say that this Yankee team has no heart; they could have given in to Schilling and Papelbon, but kept scratching and fighting.

Anyway, Francona will certainly be asked why he didn't bring Papelbon in to pitch a lot sooner, given his dominance of the league.

Personally, I can't wait for this series to end, as I can't stand all the nerve-wracking tension that these series produce.

[Sick Confusion Headache]

I mean no doubt this team has heart and I give more credit to Johnny Damon to sticking it to his old team. He has deffintly earned his pin-stripes this year.

[drumloops]

A five-game sweep at Fenway. Who'da thunk it?

[Kinbote]

"Heart" - along with "grit" and "chemistry" - are bullshit terms and have nothing to do with successful baseball. To the extent that these things "exist," and such existence is dubious, they're products of winning, not contributors to it. Scoring runs and not giving up very many is what wins games. The Yankees are able to score a lot of runs; the Red Sox are not able to prevent a lot of runs.

[drumloops]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I detect some bitterness.

[DrHibbert]

You obviously haven't watched any Jimmy Connors matches.

[DrHibbert]

But yeah I hate the Yankees too.

[drumloops]

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_113028.jpg

[Drunkenmaster]

"Heart" - along with "grit" and "chemistry" - are bullshit terms and have nothing to do with successful baseball. To the extent that these things "exist," and such existence is dubious, they're products of winning, not contributors to it. Scoring runs and not giving up very many is what wins games. The Yankees are able to score a lot of runs; the Red Sox are not able to prevent a lot of runs.
Oh, so true. Not to mention the vacuous proposition of "small ball."

[The Chuck]

"Heart" - along with "grit" and "chemistry" - are bullshit terms and have nothing to do with successful baseball. To the extent that these things "exist," and such existence is dubious, they're products of winning, not contributors to it. Scoring runs and not giving up very many is what wins games. The Yankees are able to score a lot of runs; the Red Sox are not able to prevent a lot of runs.

Crap. You've probably never played organized baseball. Agreed, baseball is a game of math for the most part, but to say heart and grit are bullshit terms is bullshit. Being big, strong and athletic will only take you so far in any sport, especially baseball, which I've played all my life up until after high school. The mental approach you take at the plate is crucial to having success. Whether you have the heart to overcome a bad stretch at the plate, or the grit to let an error go mentally to maintain that approach is the precursor to being successful.

[Drunkenmaster]

I'm not sure what you're saying there. "Heart" is something that is reserved for people who make movies about sports because it adds drama.

[Kinbote]

Yeah. I'm pretty sure it's SKILLS that carry players upward, forward, wherever.

"Heart" and "grit" are pretty useful buzzwords for sportscasters, though, especially sportscasters who happily confess to not watching games and not knowing players. (coughFJMcough).

[Drunkenmaster]

And commenting on books they've never read!

[Kinbote]

I hate books. Especially books written by computers.

[The Chuck]

You guys act like the terms "heart" and "grit" are only used by sportscasters. If it was, then you'd have a great point. But the word is used regularly by managers and players who've been around the game forever. Grit is the difference between ARod and Papi when you need a run in the bottom of the ninth, not skill. Chemistry is huge too! The reason why the mets signed Julio Franco more than anything else is because he's a good clubhouse presence, which effects the positive mindset of younger players.

[Kinbote]

Players and managers tend to be doofuses. And know remarkably little about how baseball actually works. So I'll go with objective numbers, thanks.

"Clutch" hitting is a barely extant phenomenon. It's derived from a misinterpretation of data: that is, due respect not being paid to small sample sizes.

"Chemistry"? Well, can a team score four runs, give up seven, but be declared winner because Julio Franco's sitting on their bench? It's another old saw unsupported by data.

Really, if I were to own a baseball team, I'd try to hire as many people who've never played as possible.

[Drunkenmaster]

Really, if I were to own a baseball team, I'd try to hire as many people who've never played as possible.

As this is the only true way to promote objectivity.

[Drunkenmaster]

You guys act like the terms "heart" and "grit" are only used by sportscasters. If it was, then you'd have a great point. But the word is used regularly by managers and players who've been around the game forever. Grit is the difference between ARod and Papi when you need a run in the bottom of the ninth, not skill. Chemistry is huge too! The reason why the mets signed Julio Franco more than anything else is because he's a good clubhouse presence, which effects the positive mindset of younger players. The fact that "heart" and "grit" have been around forever leads me to believe even more that they are merely misnomers. As was pointed out to me by our dear Kinbote, ARod's career numbers in "clutch" situations are actually quite good. The only reason people tend to say ARod doesn't perform well in the "clutch" is due to the fact that commentators have made a big issue about him not performing in certain situations and everybody gloms onto it and sooner or later it's widely known that ARod's not a "clutch" player.

[The Chuck]

Have either of you ever actually played organized baseball? Have either of you experienced the game other than watching it on tv? I have family and close friends the have been in and out of farm systems throughout the country, and I've played and been around baseball all my life. Sorry, but your theories simply just don't hold much weight because they're all speculation. Don't be so pompous and assume you have a firm grasp on the game when the extent of your knowledge of it comes from television and the Internet.

[DrHibbert]

I agree with Chuck.

This is why the Yankees have won so few championships the last few years. They'd win nearly every year if it only had to do with talent and numbers.

[Kinbote]

'Kay, whatever. I bet you guys think sacrifice bunts aren't moronic, too.

Meanwhile, don't YOU be so pompous as to assume your grasp of the game is firm simply because you've played it, or been around it. Really, I'd say that's the sort of thing that blinds a person: you've got a personal stake.

[i]

This is an interesting thread for me since I've only been to one game of baseball. Carry on.

[Drunkenmaster]

Have either of you ever actually played organized baseball? Have either of you experienced the game other than watching it on tv? I have family and close friends the have been in and out of farm systems throughout the country, and I've played and been around baseball all my life. Sorry, but your theories simply just don't hold much weight because they're all speculation. Don't be so pompous and assume you have a firm grasp on the game when the extent of your knowledge of it comes from television and the Internet. Actually, I was a 5-year letterman at my high school and an all-state short stop/pitcher my senior year. How can our theories be any more speculation then your's? At least ours are backed by numbers.

[Kinbote]

I played baseball in high school and caused permanent damage to my left knee. And didn't tell anyone at the time, just played through. Because of my grit, see. I may have been hitting about .125, but I like to think that my Intangibles showed everyone how to win.*

Fucker still stiffens up on me every so often.

*How to win: bench me indefinitely.

[Drunkenmaster]

I'd play you because you show heart when you go out and play through injuries.

[Drunkenmaster]

Is the debate over? Did we win?

[The Chuck]

Is the debate over? Did we win?

No and no.....let's just agree to disagree. At least you guys had some baseball experience, which lends some credibility to your argument. I'd rather concentrate on whipping all your asses in fantasy football. :mdk: