Who actually wants a reunion?

[kendra]

Forgivahness puhleez if this has already been asked in its own thread, but I'm just curious as to the state of opinion on Blamo.

I'm kind of like "...hm." I would like to see them live again and/or have the opportunity to hear another album, but there's a few conditions behind the whole shebang:

1) Put more love into the music. No cold, overproduced, weird shit which will allow Billy to mope around in a leather dress talking about how no one gets it. See #2.
2) It's not a "concept album."
3) James Iha is there.

[Fab]

The Pumpkins couldn't not do a concept album if they tried. Everything from Mellon Collie onwards has been based on a sort of concept.

Mellon Collie was put together to represent the cycle of a day, Adore was supposed to be about every aspect of love, and.. well, Machina. I have met someone who only loves the Pumpkins for Machina and everything about the mystery. Needless to say I killed him for being an untr00 f4n.

[kendra]

But...c'mon, you know what I mean. The 'concept' on Machina was SO overt, and overdone. With Adore and MCIS it wasn't shoved down our throats, and it seemed like everyone could concentrate on the music (and the BAND could concentrate on the music) as opposed to people whipping out the CD booklet and getting a magnifying glass and . . . ugh, the whole experience was just distancing to me.

[Fab]

och aye, no 70's prog style self indulgent concept albums.

[PLEASE DON'T STEP ON ME]

I think I pretty much feel the same as you guys, I'd love to see a reunion, as long as it doesn't suck balls.

[Cheryl K]

I want something acoustic. His best post-SP work has been acoustic, IMO. So I don't really care if they get back together or if he does solo work, as long as the music is good.

[ramblingrose]

Originally posted by Insert Postcode Here
I think I pretty much feel the same as you guys, I'd love to see a reunion, as long as it doesn't suck balls.

what he said.

[Fab]

Originally posted by Cheryl
I want something acoustic. boo

I'll spare you all a rant on how people always seem to think acoustic = more feeling.

[Kris K]

I'm kind of torn on the reunion.

I personally believe that Billy Corgan is lost and struggling to remain relevant in the music world. He's used to being a star, but has fallen into a pretty unimportant character who creates subpar music. Also, before you quote me and start arming yourself with angry smilies, remember that this is just my opinion.

I never got the chance to see the Pumpkins live, so that's pretty much the only reason why I am hoping that a reunion happens. I strongly doubt that they will regain any past glory or make any albums which are as great as their pre-Machina material, but still.

I'd much rather see a solo acoustic album by Corgan, but meh, we'll see if the reunion happens and works. I'd rather have Mellissa than D'arcy in the band as I think she would prove to be a better asset in terms of creativity (and hotness).

Anyway, just my two euro cents.

[Tabris]

I feel it kinda cheapins the band a bit to reunite like this, and the only thing that wouldnt make me feel that way is if they put out another absolutely amazing album, which I don't think they have in them anymore (I think once a band has lost its forward intertia once, it really saps them out).
If Billy wants to drag his name thru the mud, that's fine, but he shouldnt do it to the Pumpkins name.
Touring is another issue, i feel like it would just be a large venue victory lap/ pat on the back type of schpeel... that doesnt do anything for a bands energy. They need to get back to the nitty gritty, work their way back to a triumphant return to arena's... but, I feel like Billy's to comfortable forevor coasitng on himself to really be all that "rock'n'roll" again.

[Cheryl K]

Originally posted by Fab
boo

I'll spare you all a rant on how people always seem to think acoustic = more feeling.

Oh, I'm not implying that the music would have more feeling, I'm just thinking of when Zwan was out, the Djali stuff was damn good and I'd like to see more of that.

[Celluloid Love]

I'd love to see it, but yeah, as long as it doesn't suck.

On a sidenote, I really never cared for D'arcy too much, but without her in the band, it didn't seem the same to me, and i'm pretty sure she wouldn't be joining in on a reunion.

[Fab]

Originally posted by Cheryl
Oh, I'm not implying that the music would have more feeling, I'm just thinking of when Zwan was out, the Djali stuff was damn good and I'd like to see more of that. But a whole album of acoustic would be the dullest thing ever, they'd really have to do something special with it which would probably end up defeating the point of it being acoustic.

And it wouldn't surprise me one bit if D'arcy hasn't picked up a bass in some years.

[Atomsk Iscariot]

Originally posted by ..i..
I'd much rather see a solo acoustic album by Corgan

[Livelivemydarling]

I definitely wouldn't mind seeing them live.

[Joliet's Green Onions]

Originally posted by Tabris
They need to get back to the nitty gritty, work their way back to a triumphant return to arena's


yes... i would love if they just did a bunch of small-esque venues, rather than a couple of arenas i'll never get to go to

[kendra]

Originally posted by ..i..
Also, before you quote me and start arming yourself with angry smilies, remember that this is just my opinion.

lol


I'd rather have Mellissa than D'arcy in the band as I think she would prove to be a better asset in terms of creativity

I agree with you there . . . I did like D'arcy a lot, but when she left it was almost a relief. It's like there was always tension there; and Melissa brought so much good energy to a really weird time in the band, I think. She was/is really cool.

And as for the small venues, yeah, that would be cool, but it'd mean almost no one would be able to get tickets and see a show. Sooo fucking frustrating - esp for under 21's (I don't have that problem anymore, but I remember what it was like when the Arising! tour was on). Think of all the jerkfaces who'd go buy up tickets cos it's a reunion tour who don't really love the band as much as someone else. Life ain't fair. :mad:

[Cheryl K]

Originally posted by Fab
But a whole album of acoustic would be the dullest thing ever

We just have different opinions. You think it could be boring, I think it could be interesting.

[Joliet's Green Onions]

if they did an acoustic album, i'd want them to do it in true pumpkins layered fasion...an acoustic "wall of sound"

[Ash]

I pretty much agree with everything Kris said. I think Corgan is at a point in his life where he's struggling to figure out what he's supposed to do with himself. In my opinion, people who are putting all their faith in him and are confident of a kick-ass Pumpkins comeback are too idealistic. The Pumpkins have had their time, and produced some brilliant music to show for it. Look at it this way - the last decent album Corgan had any part in was made 8 years ago. Since then, he's fluffed around with a number of different projects, his songwriting has progressively gone down the shitter, and he's probably lost just a little bit more sanity too.

Even though TheFutureEmbrace was shit, I'd rather Corgan settle down for a long solo career than risk tainting the Pumpkins name.

[TheImplodingVoice]

now that i think about it, i dont really want them to reunite

[Mourning33]

I like what ASH said. That pretty much sums it up.
Especially the part about TFE being shit...

[Eye]

I know I have said this repeatedly before but I actually liked Machina musically, as for the whole machina mystery business, that was a little too 'intense' for me ;).

I wouldn't say TheFutureEmbrace was shit, it was average. There were some good songs on their such as Mina Loy, DIA, and CameraEye for example, there was also some not so good songs (ie Pretty Pretty Star, Strayz and Sorrows (in Blue)). It didn't have to be the Pumpkins sound, but I think he could have taken the album in a different direction, while still maintaining a sonic electronica feel (it fell apart progressively in the last half of the album).

As for the whole reunion, it would be ideal if they did come back for it to be at least the Machina tour incarnation of the band, but I seriously doubt that would happen. I am also torn because you always have to wonder whether they are just going to ruin it, and maybe they should just have left well enough alone. I guess this wouldn't be as much of a blow to people who didn't like anything after MCIS, even more so for the people who only like pre-gish material ;).

[kendra]

I agree with you 100%. Marry me!

[cigar store indian]

I'de rather a djali zwan reunion. <3

[jas1n]

i'd like to see them reunite, and it would have to include james. i liked d'arcy in the band but melissa is pretty rad IMO and she's a good replacement.

also, i passed up the couple of chances i've had to see them live (because i'm an idiot) so i'd definently make it to the shows.

[jas1n]

p.s. i don't want a zwan anything.

[aria]

i don't want an sp reunion now because it seems it'll be forced & contrived...corgan's floundering so he's going back to the only thing that worked for him.

it'd be a different matter if he'd tried harder on the solo stuff and the reunion came naturally ie desperate need of aged rockers to line their pockets or because they started working together on new material.

the way billy's handled it so far - bitching on his journal about everyone who's decided they'd had enough of his diva antics and the grand gestures of taking out a whole page on a chicago newspaper to advertise sth on behalf of others - has put me off



so yeah, as things stand, screw Billy Corgan and screw the Pumpkins reunion

[Kris K]

Originally posted by aria

the way billy's handled it so far - bitching on his journal about everyone who's decided they'd had enough of his diva antics and the grand gestures of taking out a whole page on a chicago newspaper to advertise sth on behalf of others - has put me off

[aria]

Originally posted by ..i..
I'm kind of torn on the reunion.

I personally believe that Billy Corgan is lost and struggling to remain relevant in the music world. He's used to being a star, but has fallen into a pretty unimportant character who creates subpar music.

i agree

I can't put my finger on it but I think that while he was touring his solo stuff, he ran into the people he respected musically and who are "real" stars and i bet they were unimpressed by the whole TFE blahness.

cue SP reunion

:rolleyes:

[Fab]

Originally posted by Cheryl
We just have different opinions. You think it could be boring, I think it could be interesting. The thing is that Billy could do an acoustic album on his own, calling it a Pumpkins album would be a waste, there'd probably be little Jimmy or much influence from any of the other members. If it were a solo thing it could be good, but with the pretense of it being a new Pumpkins album it just wouldn't work.

[aria]

och aye, no 70's prog style self indulgent concept albums.

D: D: D:

[Jackal]

Rock stars aren't 38, they are 20 something.

A new SP, even if terrific would tarnish the old image.

I like TFE and believe Billy has the talent and capacity to deliver the music we all want. But will he do what we want, or what he wants?

I would prefer, the money-grubbing spectacle of doing the old material in small, intimate clubs with the 4 original members, rather than Billy trying to sell a new TFESP.

[aria]

Originally posted by Jackal
Rock stars aren't 38, they are 20 something.

you must be joking

[Celluloid Love]

Originally posted by cigar store indian
I'de rather a djali zwan reunion. <3


Seconded.

[Jackal]

Originally posted by aria
you must be joking

Nope, sorry.

I like 'em young and hot! :) Sex, drugs and rock-n-roll! It's suppose to be young kids rebelling against fuddy duddies!

The Stones, Aerosmith, Robert Plant, AC/DC OZZY whoever... they sound good, look ok, act ok. I give them credit for going on and being who they are blah, blah. But comparing their new music with what made them famous is laughable.

If the Stones today were a new band with no past would you love them or would you think it was a group of 60 year old men wearing freaky clothes playing sucky music, trying to be young.

[kendra]

Too bad the Smashing Pumpkins were always missing the sex. Twenty year olds are kind of idiotic; some of MCIS DOES make me cringe :D

[aria]

you have a point but the 20 somethings making music now have a "does my hair look right lets put more gel on" fixation that is vomit-inducing.

i honestly can't think of any young acts right now that are rebelling agaist "fuddy duddies"

if anything, they are more reactionary than ever

ie Pete Doherty and his romanticized Albion the New Jerusalem crap

it's as if civil rights, feminism, gay rights movements happened on another planet

sex, drugs and rock n' roll might have been revolutionary back in the day

but I find it hard to believe that making a Colombian drug lord - who traffics human slaves and guns - richer by buying his drugs is either revolutionary or rock n' roll

[Jackal]

The Machina Mystery is why oldsters get locked into listening to "their" generations music.

I like to try the new bands but I fall back into my comfortable old familiar ways. And then yeah, I get that old thing going like, "that little punk doesn't know jack shit about jumping around on stage, why David Lee Roth could jump a mile high and spin around and do Karate moves at the same time."

I don't have a clue who Peter D. is or anything you said after that.

I guess I only see new bands on Late Night talk shows and I'm not impressed very often.

--
Really Kendra you don't find anything about SP erotic? Not even James?

:(

[Daysleeper]

I would be for a reunion if...they got back together as a 'proper' band, just not touring the hits. They would have to tour, write new songs and promote...Possibly tour as they are writing to get into the swing of things, like Zwan did. It would also have to have James on guitar...and d'arcy/Melissa on bass.

[Mourning33]

Originally posted by Jackal
Rock stars aren't 38, they are 20 something.
thats a sad thing today being that most of the "rockstars"
today are closer to forty than twenty. I am referring to people other than the older than god stones...etc....

[kendra]

Originally posted by Jackal

Really Kendra you don't find anything about SP erotic? Not even James?

:(

Haha...maybe when he was 25. Well, even up to 32. He's really lost me lately, though.

I s'pose the Pumpkins were a very good looking band; so there's eroticism in the individual members. And in individual songs. But I think as a whole they never fit into the "sex" part of the rock-n-roll mold. I think Billy once joked that he wasted that part of the whole experience cos he was always in a long term relationship :lol: I think Jimmy was more of a playa and James once responded "Ye gods, surely not!" when asked if he had a hard time finding female companions, but they never played that side of their fame up as far as I could tell. (Whereas when you read a Marilyn Manson or RHCP bio, it's all about the booty.)

Anyways.

[Evil Meanie]

I would like to see a reunion, because I greatly miss the band. Bringing D'arcy back into the band, however, would be a huge mistake. D'arcy seemed to create alot of tension between Billy and James, and quite frankly, she just doesn't need to be there. I don't want to see an SP reunion start, and then end three shows later.

Unlike the majority of this board, I don't think Billy Corgan has "lost it" or anything along those lines. I felt that TheFutureEmbrace was a rather good album, however it was definitely the worst album Corgan has ever put out. However, Corgan pretty much killed any momentum that TFE would have had by posting a whole page about SP in the newspaper the day the TFE came out. Not that TFE had alot of momentum to begin with, mind you.

Corgan, Chamberlin, and Iha are all very good musicians. However, after watching all three of them branch off on their own, I think it's safe to say that those guys really do belong in the band. It allows each of them to excel. Corgan might think that he's a strong enough song writer to not need the rest of his band, but he is sorely mistaken. He should take a look at history. Roger Waters made the exact same mistake, and even when he was making better albums than his former band, no one cared. And believe me, Billy Corgan lives and dies by record sales.

All that I really want out of a Pumpkins reunion is for the band to continue to go into new directions like they did before. If they come back and release a clone of Siamese Dream, I will be very disappointed. My favorite thing about that band was the fact that no two albums sounded alike. They always seemed to be willing to try things that are completely different. If they will release a new, and GOOD album to accompany their reunion, I will be extremely happy. If they do a greatest hits tour, then I'm really not going to care very much, and I'll be forced to lose the respect that I have for Corgan, and believe me..it's been hard to keep that respect with some of the things that he has pulled in the past. I'm tired of him talking about projects that never come to pass, I'm tired of him going on and on about Zwan and pretending like it was this horrible band when it wasn't, I'm tired of poetry books, and I'm tired of reading interviews with him that were simply conducted so that the magazine could say, "look at this asshole, kids!"

So yeah..I want a reunion, and I want to see the band succeed. I want them to be known for more than "that band with the egomaniacal, pissed off, pretentious bald guy." I want them to be known as a fucking great band...and if that happens with a reunion, then I'm all for it.

[Cool As Ice Cream]

Originally posted by Evil Meanie
Bringing D'arcy back into the band, however, would be a huge mistake. D'arcy seemed to create alot of tension between Billy and James What are you talking about?

[ingvaldo]

The Pumpkins wasn't meant to last. I personally believe that Billy is not capable of making significant rock music ever again. It all belongs to his youth. The kill-your-parents-attitude is gone, the LSD is replaced with Prozac and he dosn't even look like a rockstar with his bald head. I would love it if he could prove me wrong, but I won't get my hopes up.

[Atomsk Iscariot]

Originally posted by ingvaldo
The kill-your-parents-attitude is gone, the LSD is replaced with Prozac and he dosn't even look like a rockstar with his bald head. These were all gone before Adore, and that's the greatest album ever.

[Spaced]

This whole "Billy doesn't look rock anymore" thing is a bit stupid. Can people only rock if they conform to some preset idea of what a 'rock star' is? It's the antithesis of what rock is meant to be about.
But in other respects, Billy et al have moved too far sonically from their MCIS days, and any return to a heavy rock sound under the Pumpkins banner, no matter how good it may sound to some, won't be able to escape being labelled a contrived attempt to revive former glories. Billy may be able to pass it off as a solo artist, but then it'll still be called some irrelevant rant for attention.
Further any real reunion MUST have James, if not also d'arcy, and be based on new material produced from a whole band consensus on the musical direction.

[kendra]

Originally posted by Cool As Ice Cream
What are you talking about?

Yeah if anything I thought the dynamic there was Billy & Jimmy and D'arcy & James. But maybe that's what he means, Billy being pissed off at D'arcy = James pissed off at Billy?

Haha, gossip.

[Evil Meanie]

Originally posted by kendra
Yeah if anything I thought the dynamic there was Billy & Jimmy and D'arcy & James. But maybe that's what he means, Billy being pissed off at D'arcy = James pissed off at Billy?

Haha, gossip.

Well not really gossip, I'm simply saying that D'arcy seems to be a sensitive subject between them. James took it personally that Billy banned her from the last show, and Billy took it personally that James thanked her, or so he said..or whatever. But regardless...

[Osceana]

I don't understand why everyone has such an obsession with youth. That's such an ugly prejudice to have, and it's so overtly capitalistic (talk about overdone concepts [however, no ill-will is thrown your way Kembra]).

"Rock stars are 20, not 38?" Come on, give me a fucking break. Rock or not, it's not as if you hit some age and then fall off the creative bandwagon. Some people do, but not all. Bob Dylan has done really well, and how old is he? Bowie, Depeche Mode.... Even U2 have some good albums recently. Come on. Look at all the stuff Billy (and Jimmy too, for that matter) have done since the Pumpkins. "Mary Star Of the Sea" (the song) is one of the best songs Billy has written (in my opinion). A great deal of other Zwan material has been amazing as well. "TheFutureEmbrace" was really good too. It was not Pumpkin good, but it was good. And Jimmy's album was phenomenal. [Sorry Kendra] It seems like the only active member of the Pumpkins with meager material is James. I love the guy to death, but he hasn't been so hot since the split.

My basic point is one that even Billy shares. I ultimately believe in the concept of a band over music being made by mere individuals. Billy's album as ok, but it would have been great if the band was behind him. And at the end of the day, Zwan wasn't all that great because there was so much in-fighting that it diffused the momentum and inherent energy of the band.

If the Pumpkins come back (i love D'Arcy, but i really don't care who plays bass)- with James- they will be even more phenomenal than they were before. If you look at what each member has done individually, it's not so hot.... But if you were to bring that all together in one cohesive form? It would be incredible. "Tilt"/"Mary Star Of the Sea"/"Streetcrawler"/all the cool shit James would pull out of his ass....

Those are only my examples. But the point is that it would be a band, not a solo album. And i think Billy realizes that and that's why he wants his band back. A guy that has talked as much shit about people he supposedly really hates and doesn't get along with wouldn't just change color for no reason like that.

[kendra]

Yeah James would put some hott spinz on dem recordz all right :rolleyes: :cry:

[Atomsk Iscariot]

I learned "The Boy" on guitar today!

So I'd like to say "thank you" to James Iha for writing the only Pumpkins song not in Eb!

[Osceana]

Originally posted by kendra
Yeah James would put some hott spinz on dem recordz all right :rolleyes: :cry:

haha

tis the truth

[drbenway]

Why does everyone insist on a reformation including Iha? It doesn't take a virtuoso guitarist to identify the guy's obvious lack of ability.

And I'm not a particularly good guitarist (maybe we can smell our own). Can't one of you hot-shit musicians out there back me up on this? It's really easy to spot a guitarist who isn't comfortable behind their instrument.

[Spaced]

Originally posted by drbenway
Why does everyone insist on a reformation including Iha? It doesn't take a virtuoso guitarist to identify the guy's obvious lack of ability.

And I'm not a particularly good guitarist (maybe we can smell our own). Can't one of you hot-shit musicians out there back me up on this? It's really easy to spot a guitarist who isn't comfortable behind their instrument.

Yeah, Billy's a shit singer, he shouldn't be in the reformed pumpkins either.:rolleyes:

[chrisothoulos]

I Do!

[Kris K]

Yeah, James isn't really essential either. It would be cool to see him back in the band though.

[i]

I would love a reunion even if it was a we've-sold-out reunion, even if a new album was crap and even if the lineup was Billy, Jimmy and two dunderheads (or Linda Strawberry). Mostly because 1) I've never seen them live in any incarnation and 2) they're still my favourite band ever.

[jLc]

Before the band I'm at now, I've been in two different bands. In both bands, I basicly wrote all the music, and was some kind of control freak - I mean, I decided what the bassist had to play and what drum fills had to be in the songs. *but* I can tell you that the sounds of the two bands were really different, and that each band had its own personality - I was who made the music, but the other musicians were there.

I mean that, even having Mr Corgan controling every single aspect in the Pumpkins' music, the Smashing Pumpkins sounded how they did and the songs were like they were 'cause of Jimmy, James and D'Arcy.

I mean, a reunion without James, for example, would be a terrible mistake. James has to be there. D'Arcy is not so "needed", but I wouldn't be completely happy on a reunion with Melissa instead of D'Arcy. In my utopy, a reunion should include the four original band members and no one less or more.

I liked that Zwan album and I love TheFutureEmbrace (am I the only one?). Anyway, TFE is an experiment and Mary Star of the Sea looks like the latest recording of a church band. I think that when Billy said that he felt more comfortable with a band he was right - I mean, I still consider that Corgan is an awesome musician, I believe he has a lot of potential, but I feel that the only way for him to show that potential is in the Smashing Pumpkins.

Read the confessions? Didn't you realize the fact that the guy wasn't really happy with the music he did until he formed the Smashing Pumpkins?

It might be what some of you posted before, a popularity race and stuff like that, but I do believe that it would be positive. After all, dreaming is free. And I'd rather dream on a nice utopy, uh? ;)

[Jackal]

I never said old people can't rock, or that musicians should stop producing music at age 29.

When I think "rock star" I just don't picture 40 year olds!

Of course old rock stars seem better looking than your normal everday joe-probably because they are happier for living their dreams.

Billy shouldn't give up, but if I see Ms. Strawberry in her 80's looking garb, and some fat dude wearing overalls and playing a banjo with a banner that says "Smashing Pumpkins" above them I won't be happy==even if it sounds great.

The Pumpkins were like an art piece to me, the mood, the music, the persona's and the wardrobe all fit together. I guess I'm selfish and I don't like change.

I do accept TFE Billy he's sweet.

[Rael]

it's funny that i see this thread here because as i was shaving
this morning i was thinking exactly about this question.

My feelings swing back and forth all the time. on the one hand the pumpkins are one of my favorite bands ever. They have made a lot of very good music. Feelings of youthfull blisss and days that have no end flutter through my mind when i hear the songs that were the soundtrack to my youth. I can't help but want more songs from my favorite band to be the soundtrack for the days that lie ahead on my journey through life.

But the Pumpkins themselves have been going on their own journey and even the most beautifull mountain range will one day turn into sand eroded by time's river.

Where has that journey taken them ? Do all roads lead to the same door? If the door is open will skeltons fall out of the closet ?

Much more meditation is required for me to truly know how i feel about the whole situation. But let us look at the last line of lyrics from the final song on the final Pumpkins album.

Desolation Yes hesitation no.

[Celluloid Love]

That flew right over my head!

[Kris K]

Man, we were all happy go lucky, slapping high fives as we passed, sipping tea with the newbies, and enjoying life until Kendra unleased her death thread upon the board.

Now we're doomed to long lectures pertaining to The Smashing Pumpkins' rumoured reunion, and while some do make adequate points, none succeed in covering any new ground or saying anything that hasn't already been etched in our brains long ago.

This thread is merely a forum for people to state opinons on something, which at the moment is still a matter of huge uncertainty. It's on the same level as contemplating an asteroid hitting the earth when the only news source reporting it is The Onion.

So cut it out already! :mad:

[Celluloid Love]

Originally posted by ..i..
sipping tea with the newbies, I'm sorry but we weren't doing that

[Kris K]

Originally posted by Serial Thriller
I'm sorry but we weren't doing that

Except Rosemachetegarden, or whatever her name is.

No-homo, btw.

[Celluloid Love]

Sipping tea will always be homo

[Kris K]

I'm from the hood stupid, what type of facts are those?

[kendra]

All I wanted this thread to be about was opinions, so the purpose of the thread is fulfilled. I wasn't expecting any new ground to be chartered and I do realize that the "reunion" is pretty high in the sky at this point in time. Like I said in my first post, I was just wondering what the feelings of Blamos were (since there are similar threads on other SP message boards I'm sure - except this is the only one I give a shit about reading). Sorry I didn't run it by you first, Kris :oh:

I like tea more than coffee by the way. Another opinion.

[Kris K]

I was just joking Kendra, jeez :(

[(.)Ions]

i want a reunion.

[Kris K]

Guys, I got the fourth season of The Shield today. It's awesome.

Two notable scenes so far,

1) They go in on a bust and this dog starts biting a cop. The dog won't let go so the cop shoots and kills the dog. One of the head cops gets all pissed off and is on his way to the scene. In the meanwhile the cops place a gun between the dog's paws and say "we had to do it, he was packin'"

2) Vic is chasing this crack dealer. Vic in a car, drug dealer on a bike. First Vic crashes into the bike, knocking him into the streets and then follows him into a local 7/11 where the he swallows all the crack. In order to get him to throw it up, they pour mustard into his mouth.

[drbenway]

Yeah, Billy's a shit singer, he shouldn't be in the reformed pumpkins either.

It doesn't work that way, I'm afraid. Regardless of his technical ability, Corgan's voice is so distinctive it becomes the defining property of the band's sound.

And if proficiency doesn't matter to you, then what exactly was it Iha was bringing to the group? Why insist on Iha being there, and not D'arcy? If you're not going to bring any skill to the table, then at least bring some interest or passion or energy, at least bring a perspective. Maybe it's naiive, but I actually believe Corgan's little confessions about Iha and D'arcy just not being there.

Oh, and while I'm at it, there's one thing even Corgan hasn't been dick enough to say: if it wasn't for him, Iha and D'arcy would be NOWHERE right now.

[Osceana]

Originally posted by jLc
Before the band I'm at now, I've been in two different bands. In both bands, I basicly wrote all the music, and was some kind of control freak - I mean, I decided what the bassist had to play and what drum fills had to be in the songs. *but* I can tell you that the sounds of the two bands were really different, and that each band had its own personality - I was who made the music, but the other musicians were there.

I mean that, even having Mr Corgan controling every single aspect in the Pumpkins' music, the Smashing Pumpkins sounded how they did and the songs were like they were 'cause of Jimmy, James and D'Arcy.

I mean, a reunion without James, for example, would be a terrible mistake. James has to be there. D'Arcy is not so "needed", but I wouldn't be completely happy on a reunion with Melissa instead of D'Arcy. In my utopy, a reunion should include the four original band members and no one less or more.

I liked that Zwan album and I love TheFutureEmbrace (am I the only one?). Anyway, TFE is an experiment and Mary Star of the Sea looks like the latest recording of a church band. I think that when Billy said that he felt more comfortable with a band he was right - I mean, I still consider that Corgan is an awesome musician, I believe he has a lot of potential, but I feel that the only way for him to show that potential is in the Smashing Pumpkins.

Read the confessions? Didn't you realize the fact that the guy wasn't really happy with the music he did until he formed the Smashing Pumpkins?

It might be what some of you posted before, a popularity race and stuff like that, but I do believe that it would be positive. After all, dreaming is free. And I'd rather dream on a nice utopy, uh? ;)

GASP!!! :eek:

We have a doppleganger in our midst! A person from Spain copying my ideas? How dare you!

(j/k)

:p I will drink to that, amigo.

How long have you been here? Have i completely missed you?

[Osceana]

Originally posted by jLc
Before the band I'm at now, I've been in two different bands. In both bands, I basicly wrote all the music, and was some kind of control freak - I mean, I decided what the bassist had to play and what drum fills had to be in the songs. *but* I can tell you that the sounds of the two bands were really different, and that each band had its own personality - I was who made the music, but the other musicians were there.

I mean that, even having Mr Corgan controling every single aspect in the Pumpkins' music, the Smashing Pumpkins sounded how they did and the songs were like they were 'cause of Jimmy, James and D'Arcy.

I mean, a reunion without James, for example, would be a terrible mistake. James has to be there. D'Arcy is not so "needed", but I wouldn't be completely happy on a reunion with Melissa instead of D'Arcy. In my utopy, a reunion should include the four original band members and no one less or more.

I liked that Zwan album and I love TheFutureEmbrace (am I the only one?). Anyway, TFE is an experiment and Mary Star of the Sea looks like the latest recording of a church band. I think that when Billy said that he felt more comfortable with a band he was right - I mean, I still consider that Corgan is an awesome musician, I believe he has a lot of potential, but I feel that the only way for him to show that potential is in the Smashing Pumpkins.

Read the confessions? Didn't you realize the fact that the guy wasn't really happy with the music he did until he formed the Smashing Pumpkins?

It might be what some of you posted before, a popularity race and stuff like that, but I do believe that it would be positive. After all, dreaming is free. And I'd rather dream on a nice utopy, uh? ;)

P.S. I second everything that was said here.

[Atomsk Iscariot]

I really like TheFutureEmbrace. The first side is freaking awesome, the second side falls apart a bit ("Sorrows"), but overall, I really enjoy it, and I think "DIA" comes damn close to Pumpkins quality, if not actually that.

[Osceana]

Originally posted by Atomsk Iscariot
I really like TheFutureEmbrace. The first side is freaking awesome, the second side falls apart a bit ("Sorrows"), but overall, I really enjoy it, and I think "DIA" comes damn close to Pumpkins quality, if not actually that.

"Sorrows" is a pretty dumb song. "DIA", however, is pretty lame. I feel like it's a waste of Jimmy's talent. But, you know, whatever's clever....

[Joliet's Green Onions]

Originally posted by Osceana
"DIA", however, is pretty lame. I feel like it's a waste of Jimmy's talent.

i've fallen in love with that song

however,i like the sonic(?) feel of the Album (Sorrow,Now,ATC,Strayz) mainly because they were the only new styled songs he made...the rest was just distorted guitar with computer effects, imo [note: i know very little about guitar effects]

but,i was very disapointed at TFE's lack of good drumming

[kendra]

Originally posted by drbenway
And if proficiency doesn't matter to you, then what exactly was it Iha was bringing to the group? Why insist on Iha being there, and not D'arcy? If you're not going to bring any skill to the table, then at least bring some interest or passion or energy, at least bring a perspective. Maybe it's naiive, but I actually believe Corgan's little confessions about Iha and D'arcy just not being there.

Oh, and while I'm at it, there's one thing even Corgan hasn't been dick enough to say: if it wasn't for him, Iha and D'arcy would be NOWHERE right now.

I don't think James or D'arcy give a fuck about where the Great Billy Corgan Has Gotten Them, nor do they owe Corgan anything. She certainly hasn't gotten a lot out of the experience (that said, it's her own fault).

And you choose what you want to emphasize and believe. If you believe Billy's confessions about James not being there, you've also got to pay attention to the many instances of Billy remarking on the chemistry between he and James and his seeming DEPENDENCE on the guy at times - whether he was "there" or not all the time isn't the issue. The fact is, Billy and another guitarist isn't gonna be the Smashing Pumpkins. It'll be the Smashing Somethings, maybe - actually, I think that was called Zwan. I think (OPINION) the core force of the band was those two guys, and they are greatly augmented by a fantastic drummer (when they had it).

[kendra]

Originally posted by ..i..
I was just joking Kendra, jeez :(

WHY WE ALWAYS GOTTA FIGHT LIKE DIS.

Sorry, my sarcasm detector was off :(

[PLEASE DON'T STEP ON ME]

And i'd like to point out, James has a very distinctive playing style. He may not be the greatest player, but he has a sound which complemented the pumpkins oh so well. So bite me blamo. Bite me hard! :mad:

[Atomsk Iscariot]

Originally posted by Osceana
"DIA", however, is pretty lame. I feel like it's a waste of Jimmy's talent. But, you know, whatever's clever.... Okay, maybe I'm just reading you wrong here, but it's kinda lame to dislike a song for the fact that Jimmy ain't hitting his tom-toms at super-speed during it. His drumming on that track fit the tone of the album, but it still sounded distinctly his. I think that's a pretty good accomplishment.

You're also ignoring all the other elements of the song. How odd and utterly beautiful the violin sounds alongside the wall of guitars. How it's basically the best melody Billy's crafted since "MSOTS." How it wouldn't sound out of place on Machina (start hatin', Kris). Etc.

[negatifzeo]

Absolutely. If he's just going to make albums like TFE as a solo artist anyways, we have nothing to lose. And I'm still amazed that after all these years I still love the Pumpkins' music to death. I'm listening to my entire music collection via the media streaming capabilities of my Xbox 360(Cuz Im cool like that), and Pastichio's on. And it rocks. We still see hints of awesomeness in everything Billy's done, (The Camera Eye on TFE, everything Zwan did that didn't go on MSOTS) hopefully he can just release the good stuff. I don't want another Machina though, Machina was terrible......

[i]

And i'd like to point out, James has a very distinctive playing style. He may not be the greatest player, but he has a sound which complemented the pumpkins oh so well.

Agreed. If they reunite I really do hope it includes Billy, James and Jimmy.

[jLc]

How long have you been here? Have i completely missed you?

Cheers!

My posting has been quite scarce plus I've been such a lurker for years before I even registered :P Now I have a job and nice slow times so I guess I'll post here a bit more.

On topic, I'm glad we agree.

If you believe Billy's confessions about James not being there, you've also got to pay attention to the many instances of Billy remarking on the chemistry between he and James and his seeming DEPENDENCE on the guy at times - whether he was "there" or not all the time isn't the issue. The fact is, Billy and another guitarist isn't gonna be the Smashing Pumpkins. It'll be the Smashing Somethings, maybe - actually, I think that was called Zwan. I think (OPINION) the core force of the band was those two guys, and they are greatly augmented by a fantastic drummer (when they had it).

That was my point, except Kendra wrote it right, unlike me ;).

Exactly my thougts, only that I have a fetish for D'Arcy or anything like that :dance: The bolded section: I agree 100% with that.

Smashing Pumpkins were Billy, James, D'Arcy and Jimmy. Period. Do you think that SD would have been that great if James, D'Arcy and Jimmy would have been well-behaved studio musicians that do everything Billy says without complaining, 24/7? I guess not.

There are many things that define a band, no matter who's in charge of doing "everything" (musically speaking, of course).

[Herr Lipp]

"Sorrows" is a pretty dumb song. "DIA", however, is pretty lame. I feel like it's a waste of Jimmy's talent. But, you know, whatever's clever....

Retarded use of the word "however" there. You werent offering an opposing view or fact. :rolleyes: I fucking hate hipsters, why don;t you go and do me a favour and punch yourself in the face.

[Estimated Prophet]

I've been an SP fan since pre-94 lolla and I say that when they produce it will be along their natural progression they have followed forever. They always build on themselves, change and challenge themselves, and in the end I have always enjoyed their music. While there were definately some songs on Machina which were over produced...and yet there were mostly gems on that album (With Every Light, Age of Innocence, Wound, etc). Machina II has only good songs on it, and some referring back to previous Pumpkins works (Go, Home) and some which helped focus on the metal vibe which actually took root in pumpkins music during MCIS, tunes like Dross, Cash Car Star and Soul Power. I suggest that in the end, you had Untitled, a tune much more like something off of Siamese Dream, followed by the Zwan album which had, atleast guitars wise, a much more SD sound. I suggest that the pumpkins will find their renitch as a mixture of their pasts as they always have. I want another album because I love the Pumpkins and feel they will continue to make great music. My conditions for Pumpkins reunion:
1) Billy Corgan continues to write the songs and play lead guitar
2) Jimmy Chamberlin is the drummer
3) Bring back 12-16 minute long Porcelinas :)

James and D'Arcy's talent never was something I was willing to splooge for. Surely, I like James and will be happy to see him back, but its no requirement.

[Atomsk Iscariot]

I'm pretty much with the James people.

[Osceana]

Retarded use of the word "however" there. You werent offering an opposing view or fact. :rolleyes: I fucking hate hipsters, why don;t you go and do me a favour and punch yourself in the face.

My use of the word "however" was appropriate if you had actually read the original post and to what it was referencing. I only agreed with the first view Atomsk Iscariot expressed, however, i disagreed with the other.

You're still in high school. Wait until after you leave grammar class to come down on someone. Your post contained three glaring grammatical errors.

Maybe you should pay a little more attention next time before you decide to make an asinine comment like that. You've been here a little under a year and you've posted almost several times more than i have. Maybe you need to slow down a little, stop pissing your pants every time you think you've got something clever to say, and think about what you're writing. It would do you a lot of good here.

One last thing: You seem to have pegged me as a hipster even though you've never met me or really talked with me. I've barely even been on Blamo since you began incontinently posting every 5 seconds. The only thing you do know about me actually is how i look. If you don't like the way i dress, or look, keep it to yourself. This thread has nothing to do with it.

:rolleyes: I fucking hate dumb angsty teens that post on Blamo just to vent.

[Osceana]

Okay, maybe I'm just reading you wrong here, but it's kinda lame to dislike a song for the fact that Jimmy ain't hitting his tom-toms at super-speed during it. His drumming on that track fit the tone of the album, but it still sounded distinctly his. I think that's a pretty good accomplishment.

You're also ignoring all the other elements of the song. How odd and utterly beautiful the violin sounds alongside the wall of guitars. How it's basically the best melody Billy's crafted since "MSOTS." How it wouldn't sound out of place on Machina (start hatin', Kris). Etc.

No, no, no.... That's not what i meant at all. But i apologize because i can see how it came off that way.

First of all, the violin in the song? Amazing. Beautious (yes, i just made up a new word). But i just kind of lament that Jimmy was on that song rather than on, say, "Walking Shade" because the drum beat is so disjointed and it's the kind of beat that anybody could play (any good drummer, anyway).

The song just kind of rambles on and stumbles a bit. It goes on forever and it just sounds sloppy to me. That's just my opinion though.

[Osceana]

Do you think that SD would have been that great if James, D'Arcy and Jimmy would have been well-behaved studio musicians that do everything Billy says without complaining, 24/7? I guess not.

There are many things that define a band, no matter who's in charge of doing "everything" (musically speaking, of course).

Yeah, that's a good point. James is probably better at guitar than most people on this board, or even a good deal of early-90s rockers, i would wager. I say that because he's very inventive. He was the source of the music for "Mayonaise" and a lot of other classic Pumpkins tunes. And the elements that he brought into the music were so creative that it makes his place in the band essential.

James is not the most well-crafted, technical, studio musician that people expect him to be, but that doesn't really matter in music. He played without histrionics and that's what made the Pumpkins stand apart from most of what was going going on in the music world during that period, and even at any other point in rock music.

Replacing James for some Zakk Wylde session monster would defeat the magic of the band. He has to be there. Besides, i would miss all the lame jokes.

[kendra]

Thing is though, he's changed a lot in the past 5 years or so. Or at least it seems that way. I'd be really interested to see what he has to bring to the band these days. They've all changed, really. It would be a different band in a lot of respects, maybe.

[jLc]

Exactly. James is a must, has a very unique guitar playing style which comes from Billy's (his -somewhat- teacher) but has mutated into something really interesting after James' experience in APC and the Vanessa and the O's thingo. I am one who enjoys Let It Come Down where he performs some beautifully simple melodies.

My favourite songs, besides, involve James. Soma, Mayonaise, I am One. He seems to come from time to time to show nice ideas. In fact, if a reunion takes place, I'd like to see more james in there. I love Blew Away or The Boy, btw.

I'm pretty sure that Billy+Jimmy+two other people would not be The Smashing Pumpkins. It would be Zwan II, as previously mentioned.

[drbenway]

You know, I've just been trying to think logically, here. Or at least incredibly pragmatically. And, to be honest, I think if Iha had never existed and was merely a figment of our collective imagination, everyone here would love the Pumpkins' records just as much as they do now.

HOWEVER: If I let the sentimental part of myself out of its cage, I think if I were standing in the audience for the very first reformed Pumpkins show, not knowing the line-up, and Mr. James Iha walked out onto the stage, I'd probably barf with joy.

[kendra]

Haha. You are probably right. But if it wasn't James, it would've been some other guy, and we'd be saying the same things. Assuming he wasn't an utterly talentless no personality hack. Or that the Pumpkins didn't go through 80 different guitarists like some bands have in the past.

[geek]

I just want to see them live. I really don't care if they make a new album.

[firecrasher]

I'm torn on the issue.

I wasn't particularly surprised or excited when he placed the ad, if only because something didn't seem to ring right, and part of me doesn't believe that it will really happen, or happen the way it "should." (Meaning good music). Yes, TSP is also Billy-Jimmy-James-D'arcy and would kinda feel like a cash cow any other way. For all the fights and awfulness and weird shit that went down in the band... take a look at Vieuphoria. Even if they were vastly different people, they were actually having FUN.

How many bands have reunited and how have the results been?
Five years is not a particularly long amount of time in the long run, and I don't know if sooner rather than later would be the better choice.

Corgan is going to make some kind of music no matter what form it takes place in. He may also be the type to borderline hate every situation he finds himself in no matter the quality of it. (Zwan was all one big happy family in interviews and then he breaks it up; he releases solo album only to really say how much he dislikes the whole venture). It's too late for anything he will release to be considered career suicide, if only because he's been around for so long. Whatever comes out is always going to have his stamp on it, and not just because of his voice.


I think perhaps the concept thing came about after Billy had essentially puked out his soul on Siamese Dream. Not that he had nothing to feel or say in the following albums; just a way to deflect some of what was being thrown his way. He's always seemed a bit tongue-in-cheek about the concepts anyway. MACHINA wasn't a bad album - just think of the other shit that was released around that time. But it is kinda reaching and bloated, and I don't particularly want to hear another one.