War Machine SPINS Some More Propaganda [Archive]

_sean_

12-30-2005, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by RulesMapsGuns
sometimes i feel like im the only one who hasnt gone nuts! PARANOA

we can overwhelmingly conclude that the only reason this poor child is so sick (1) and without care (2) is because THERE IS A FUCKING WAR destroying her country. And those largely responsible for that destruction are coming to here rescue, and being hailed as mercinaries. its like a firefighter igniting a forest and then putting it out, and be awarded a medal.

If you dont see Milo Minderbinder through ever single story like this...well...i dont know, Ill slap you.

1)So you’re saying that American soldiers are responsible for this child’s spine not properly fusing during the first month of pregnancy?

2)I can ‘overwhelming conclude’ that this child has not been properly cared for due to economic limitations (i.e. the family cannot afford the necessary treatment(s)).

mer·ce·nar·ies
One who serves or works merely for monetary gain; a hireling.
A professional soldier hired for service in a foreign army.

Note: I am not an advocate of the war in Iraq.

hi im skot

12-30-2005, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by RulesMapsGuns
we can overwhelmingly conclude that the only reason this poor child is so sick and without care is because THERE IS A FUCKING WAR destroying her country.

let's not forget that her country is devastatingly poor, too...and that was before the war.

look man, i'm opposed to this war just as much as you are. but in the face of such a negative situation, i think it's good to look for the good, too. if i remember the story correctly, this baby's injury had nothing to do with the war, but rather a birth defect.

i don't think it's fair to necessarily look at this as a fluff piece or propraganda. it's a hopeful story taking place among a terribly fucked up situation. now, if the US government turns Noor into a poster child for everything going "well" in iraq, that's another story. this is a small piece that i've only seen covered on CNN's website.

this thread reminds me why i tend to stay out of political threads. there's no need to act like a jerk, especially since we are more or less on the same side of the fence.

hi im skot

12-30-2005, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by solus
1)So you’re saying that American soldiers are responsible for this child’s spine not properly fusing during the first month of pregnancy?

2)I can ‘overwhelming conclude’ that this child has not been properly cared for due to economic limitations (i.e. the family cannot afford the necessary treatment(s)).

mer·ce·nar·ies
One who serves or works merely for monetary gain; a hireling.
A professional soldier hired for service in a foreign army.

Note: I am not an advocate of the war in Iraq.

seriously...i think people need to read this article a little more carefully.

::friendly ghost::

12-30-2005, 03:37 PM

well, it's absurd some baby's gotta be a pawn in a propaganda game, but as long as it's li'l life was saved, big deal... at least uncle sam did something right for a change... that's the bright side of propaganda; in order to stage a pr coup, you sometimes hafta clean up your own mess...

anyways, at least news blurbs like this help to preserve the idea of humanitarian action, even in a twisted, co-opted way, which is valuable, i think... and in times like these, being overly jaded and cynical only helps the other side. it allows bush and his goons to take over the language of optimism, which is ultimately what people are more likely to respond to

RulesMapsGuns

12-30-2005, 03:38 PM

hey thanks for the definition: by mercenary, i implied they were working for the service of IRAQ...lies.

and if you believe for one second that US Imperialism isnt responsible for SO MUCH of the worlds poverty--especially in Iraq--youve been buttfucked by the Hegemon.

Anyone who "supports Yr Troops" is supporting a war. Moderates dont accomplish shit. Go bet-WIENERS.

RulesMapsGuns

12-30-2005, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by hi im skot
seriously...i think people need to read this article a little more carefully. seriously bro, stick to the Thumbs-UP.

RulesMapsGuns

12-30-2005, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by ::friendly ghost::

anyways, at least news blurbs like this help to preserve the idea of humanitarian action, even in a twisted, co-opted way, which is valuable, i think... and in times like these, being overly jaded and cynical only helps the other side. it allows bush and his goons to take over the language of optimism, which is ultimately what people are more likely to respond to so true, i must digress.

hi im skot

12-30-2005, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by RulesMapsGuns
seriously bro, stick to the Thumbs-UP.

it's funny...i've always liked you up until this thread.

hi im skot

12-30-2005, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by RulesMapsGuns
Anyone who "supports Yr Troops" is supporting a war.

believe it or not, there are soldiers in iraq who have no desire to be there (including several of my friends), and are just as against this war as you and i are. i'd rather show them support than say "fuck you."

and yes, i proudly "support our troops," meaning i hope none of them, you know, DIE fighting in such a silly war.

RulesMapsGuns

12-30-2005, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by hi im skot
believe it or not, there are soldiers in iraq who have no desire to be there (including several of my friends), and are just as against this war as you and i are. i'd rather show them support than say "fuck you."

and yes, i proudly "support our troops," meaning i hope none of them, you know, DIE fighting in such a silly war. well i disagree with this. if one were really opposed, one would make a ruckus. i know i would...heaven forbid a draft be instituted.

lisa

12-30-2005, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by ::friendly ghost::
in order to stage a pr coup, you sometimes hafta clean up your own mess...

helping one kid is no where near cleaning up the mess theyve created... the few humanitarian acts they do for pr reasons dont make up for singlehandedly destroying a country for oil... killing innocent people, killing your own people. the mess will never be cleaned up. the nuclear bomb will go off before that happens.

RulesMapsGuns

12-30-2005, 03:49 PM

lisa

12-30-2005, 03:51 PM

the best teacher i ever had ran to canada during the vietnam draft.

hi im skot

12-30-2005, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by RulesMapsGuns
well i disagree with this. if one were really opposed, one would make a ruckus. i know i would...heaven forbid a draft be instituted.

fair enough, and i respect that you're passionate enough to make some noise.

and honestly, i don't see a draft happening again. the politicians who would OK that move would be committing political suicide.

RulesMapsGuns

12-30-2005, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by hi im skot
fair enough, and i respect that you're passionate enough to make some noise.

and honestly, i don't see a draft happening again. the politicians who would OK that move would be committing political suicide. lets hope so.

hi im skot

12-30-2005, 03:56 PM

Originally posted by lisa
he few humanitarian acts they do for pr reasons dont make up for singlehandedly destroying a country for oil...

i honestly don't think helping an infant with a possibly fatal birth defect is done simply for the PR...i know there are a lot of sick fucks out there, but sometimes, just sometimes, people want to do what's right.

and while it seems from an outsiders perspective that the US has done nothing to help iraq (other than ousting sadam), i don't think it's quite fair to say the US has singlehandedly destroyed iraq; iraq has been in bad shape for a very long time.

_sean_

12-30-2005, 03:58 PM

I agree with you, Lisa. I think the politicians don’t care about ACTUALLY cleaning up the mess they created. All they care about is presenting the guise of attempting to do so. I guess it improves their approval ratings.

I too support the troops. A large majority of our armed forces joined because of [domestic] socio-economic reasons. If they cause this so called “ruckus” they will be dishonorably discharged, which means they will receive no money/benefits to support their family. Not to mention that employers view dishonorable discharges worse than felonies on resumes.

kittybear

12-30-2005, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by solus
It’s not like Americans, or any one else for that matter, are going to forget what’s really happening in Iraq.
its not...??

i dont see how possibly saving one baby somehow makes up for or makes the deaths of hundreds...thousands?...of other children less horrible...

this story/effort serves to suggest that..that they are doing such good for just random people who would have otherwise...without the us troops being there...died or live a horrible life...

while the cost of sending that baby to gerogia could have fed probably over hundred children in sudan and saved them...for a day...or vaccinated them...or brought a village a cooling system to keep bacteria out of what food they do have...

rulesmapsguns is completely right...this is just more of the same..trying to get us to forget that it is a war...that they are there helping people and not killing them...

RulesMapsGuns

12-30-2005, 03:59 PM

::friendly ghost::

12-30-2005, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by lisa
helping one kid is no where near cleaning up the mess theyve created... the few humanitarian acts they do for pr reasons dont make up for singlehandedly destroying a country for oil... killing innocent people, killing your own people. the mess will never be cleaned up. the nuclear bomb will go off before that happens.

true... no arguments here...

but i still think these acts are important. it helps the soldiers to be able to live with themselves, for one thing, which i wouldn't begrudge a fighting man. it's tough having somebody put a gun in your hand and tell you to go out n' kill people. acts like this may help prevent the soldiers from becoming completely dehumanized, and i think they have an encouraging effect on the american conscience, which needs all the boosts it can get.

things are bad enough as it is, but i fear the day when americans no longer even feel the need to uphold the pretense of humanitarian concern... it'll make this li'l bloodbath look like a tea party

hi im skot

12-30-2005, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by RulesMapsGuns
if one wants to trace the sources of any underdeveloped nation's original undoing, look no further than Western imperialism.

but i do agree that good deeds are done, often without a single thought of opportunism. but when its spun in the papers as a "mercy mission," and people gobble it down, its frightening. The People's Will isnt always their Will.

let's just hope fox news doesn't pick up on this story.

RulesMapsGuns

12-30-2005, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by solus
I agree with you, Lisa. I think the politicians don’t care about ACTUALLY cleaning up the mess they created. All they care about is presenting the guise of attempting to do so. I guess it improves their approval ratings.

I too support the troops. A large majority of our armed forces joined because of [domestic] socio-economic reasons. If they cause this so called “ruckus” they will be dishonorably discharged, which means they will receive no money/benefits to support their family. Not to mention that employers view dishonorable discharges worse than felonies on resumes. very good point, and where my class-consciousness punches me in the head. the most one could do, in an ethically neomarxist way, is not even DESIRE employment from a 'patriot' employer who views dissent as mortifying.

kittybear

12-30-2005, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by ::friendly ghost::
true... no arguments here...

but i still think these acts are important. it helps the soldiers to be able to live with themselves, for one thing, which i wouldn't begrudge a fighting man. it's tough having somebody put a gun in your hand and tell you to go out n' kill people. acts like this may help prevent the soldiers from becoming completely dehumanized, and i think they have an encouraging effect on the american conscience, which needs all the boosts it can get.

things are bad enough as it is, but i fear the day when americans no longer even feel the need to uphold the pretense of humanitarian concern... it'll make this li'l bloodbath look like a tea party

why should people who voted for or partake in war...this war...based on lies and oportunism...feels good about themselves...

i hope im not making this up..but didnt there used to be a time when one would have had to do good to feel good...??

lisa

12-30-2005, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by hi im skot
and while it seems from an outsiders perspective that the US has done nothing to help iraq (other than ousting sadam), i don't think it's quite fair to say the US has singlehandedly destroyed iraq; iraq has been in bad shape for a very long time.

umm. im not that much of an outsider. i guarantee you i get all the news you get, and have access to all the same information anyone with education/interest does.

it should be noted that the US helped saddam in his dictator ways before they decided they needed more oil, which has everything to do with the state of the country before the war began. and the US deciding to go to war for 'WMDs' that everyone knew they didnt have! give me a break. they never found any, and theyre still bombing, killing, destroying, just because. and catching saddam wasnt some amazing act they should be thanked for. maybe they should have caught him back in the beginning of his dictatorship before he started torturing his own? maybe? hmmm. maybe they should spend more time going after osama? maybe they should have looked at north korea? the country that actually HAS WMDs and refuses to let them go... theyll get to them eventually.. when its too late of course.
everything that any country does is directly influenced by the US, there is no way around it.

hi im skot

12-30-2005, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by lisa
umm. im not that much of an outsider. i guarantee you i get all the news you get, and have access to all the same information anyone with education/interest does.

are you an iraqi citizen? have you spent time in iraq? that's what i meant by "outsider."

::friendly ghost::

12-30-2005, 04:13 PM

incidentally... as long as we're talking about the evils of yankee imperialism n' whatnot...

let's pause for a moment to reflect that all of us in america are living on stolen land, built by slaves... and i have yet to meet a single person who turned his property or income over to a native american or a brother...

so really, all this gab is slightly absurd. we're all recipients of stolen goods, and none of us seems to eager to do anything about it... yet, just by living here and working and paying taxes and carrying on like normal, we're supporting the idea that the spoils go to the victor, even as we kvetch about bush and his goons cashing in...

from the point of view of some enlightened historian a few thousand years from now, we'll pretty much all look like hypocritical assholes

lisa

12-30-2005, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by hi im skot
are you an iraqi citizen? have you spent time in iraq? that's what i meant by "outsider."

haha oh sorry, i thought you meant since im not american.

kittybear

12-30-2005, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by hi im skot
are you an iraqi citizen? have you spent time in iraq? that's what i meant by "outsider."

you make a good point...

but lisa is still correct...the us helped put them inthe hell they were in under sadam...

its a lil ridiculous to show up ten years later..like...uh oops...wait we need an excuse...whats that thing that scares us about north korea...can we apply that...??i mean like afganistan...iraq...same thing right...eh heh heh heh...

but atleast with all the us influence...the third world is suddenly become more progressive then the us...

i guess thats what happens under forced democracy..now if only we could have a democracy...

hi im skot

12-30-2005, 04:19 PM

that's a great point, friendly one.

and as i've mentioned to rulesmapsguns, i really do appreciate the fact that there are still people out there who are so passionate about what's happening in iraq.

as was also mentioned earlier, we (meaning everyone participating in this thread) seem to be on the page, the same team when it comes to the war. we've all got our opinions, though, and it's important for us (myself included) to be as respectful of others' opinions as possible.

sheesh...i'm such a hippie. :)

hi im skot

12-30-2005, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by lisa
haha oh sorry, i thought you meant since im not american.

no problem. sorry if i came off as an asshole.

RulesMapsGuns

12-30-2005, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by ::friendly ghost::
incidentally... as long as we're talking about the evils of yankee imperialism n' whatnot...

let's pause for a moment to reflect that all of us in america are living on stolen land, built by slaves... and i have yet to meet a single person who turned his property or income over to a native american or a brother...

so really, all this gab is slightly absurd. we're all recipients of stolen goods, and none of us seems to eager to do anything about it... yet, just by living here and working and paying taxes and carrying on like normal, we're supporting the idea that the spoils go to the victor, even as we kvetch about bush and his goons cashing in...

from the point of view of some enlightened historian a few thousand years from now, we'll pretty much all look like hypocritical assholes totally. but just because we cant change the past doesnt mean we cant do anything about the present, or future. this new breed is much more frightening, in my opinion, because they act in secret with EVERY tool at their disposal. there is nothing absurd about citing Neo-Colonialism.

::friendly ghost::

12-30-2005, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by kittybear
why should people who voted for or partake in war...this war...based on lies and oportunism...feels good about themselves...

i hope im not making this up..but didnt there used to be a time when one would have had to do good to feel good...??

yeah...

i tend to agree...

but then, i've never had to shoot a guy down and live with myself afterwards... altho i've seen a ton of vietnam vets muttering to themselves on the streets of this crummy town, and maybe some of them did...

and i'm not gonna judge a guy who's been thru something i'd do anything to avoid.

and anyway, there was never a time when people had to do good to feel good. maybe in the garden of eden, i dunno. mostly, people do what they do and contrive a way to feel good about it afterwards. hence the level of bullshit n' mendacity in this crummy world

kittybear

12-30-2005, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by ::friendly ghost::
incidentally... as long as we're talking about the evils of yankee imperialism n' whatnot...

let's pause for a moment to reflect that all of us in america are living on stolen land, built by slaves... and i have yet to meet a single person who turned his property or income over to a native american or a brother...

so really, all this gab is slightly absurd. we're all recipients of stolen goods, and none of us seems to eager to do anything about it... yet, just by living here and working and paying taxes and carrying on like normal, we're supporting the idea that the spoils go to the victor, even as we kvetch about bush and his goons cashing in...

from the point of view of some enlightened historian a few thousand years from now, we'll pretty much all look like hypocritical assholes

umm...yeah...did your ancestors directly have slaves or lead the trail of tears...??if they did...you totally should turn over all your stuff...

many of our ancestors came much later...and even fought a war to try to end it...even if it was only an excuse...or came after that...

but the main difference is that this whole iraq thing is sorta kinda totally happening now...so maybe dont buy into yet...its not even in the ninth grade history books yet...

though clinton is...and i noticed they left a few of his blunders out...quite disheartening...

kittybear

12-30-2005, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by ::friendly ghost::
yeah...

i tend to agree...

but then, i've never had to shoot a guy down and live with myself afterwards... altho i've seen a ton of vietnam vets muttering to themselves on the streets of this crummy town, and maybe some of them did...

and i'm not gonna judge a guy who's been thru something i'd do anything to avoid.

and anyway, there was never a time when people had to do good to feel good. maybe in the garden of eden, i dunno. mostly, people do what they do and contrive a way to feel good about it afterwards. hence the level of bullshit n' mendacity in this crummy world

exactly...i dont understand how anyone no matter what economic incentives could go to a forgien land..they they probably couldnt have even pointed out on a map beforehand..and kill the people...do you think that even half of our soilders knew anything about iraq before they got there...??and they were told..look emenmy...shooot...kill...and they do it..i think its dumb...just my opinion..i know a lot of people dont agree...

this seems to be a whole other level of patriotism that scares the hell out of me...

personanly i would go to jail first...no one haaaas to kill anyone...they choose this...brainwashing or whatever...they chose it...

lisa

12-30-2005, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by kittybear
its not even in the ninth grade history books yet...

though clinton is...and i noticed they left a few of his blunders out...quite disheartening...

why are you reading ninth grade history books?? :therock:

::friendly ghost::

12-30-2005, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by kittybear
umm...yeah...did your ancestors directly have slaves or lead the trail of tears...??if they did...you totally should turn over all your stuff...

many of our ancestors came much later...and even fought a war to try to end it...even if it was only an excuse...or came after that...

well, i hear ya... but i didn't say we'd stolen the goods, just that we'd received stolen goods, which is frankly even less defensible, in my opinion... we didn't have to fight and kill for what we've got, so there's no guilt... we just get to enjoy it... a neat trick, to be sure...

come to think of it, hitler said that his generation would assume the guilt of building a new germany, so that future generations could enjoy it in peace. i wish i could remember where i read that. but it seems to be the usual strategy.

kittybear

12-30-2005, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by lisa
why are you reading ninth grade history books?? :therock:

hehe you caught me...i havent..since uh ninth grade...but thinking about this more...it probably already is...

kittybear

12-30-2005, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by ::friendly ghost::
well, i hear ya... but i didn't say we'd stolen the goods, just that we'd received stolen goods, which is frankly even less defensible, in my opinion... we didn't have to fight and kill for what we've got, so there's no guilt... we just get to enjoy it... a neat trick, to be sure...

come to think of it, hitler said that his generation would assume the guilt of building a new germany, so that future generations could enjoy it in peace. i wish i could remember where i read that. but it seems to be the usual strategy.

it is...and we're continueing the tradtion...arent we...

mmmmmmmmmmm progression...

::friendly ghost::

12-30-2005, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by kittybear
personanly i would go to jail first...no one haaaas to kill anyone...they choose this...brainwashing or whatever...they chose it...

word..

my dad joined the army to get in on the g.i. bill and go to college, but he refused to fire his gun at anybody and told his commanding officers so. he said they could send him to the front lines and put him in harm's way, he wasn't scared, but nobody could make a murderer out of him. he never killed anybody either, altho he saw some nasty stuff...

kittybear

12-30-2005, 04:40 PM

werd to yer dad...

RulesMapsGuns

12-30-2005, 04:45 PM

the Caity Cat

12-30-2005, 06:25 PM

My thoughts on this article can be summed up as follows: Too little too late.

Kris K

12-30-2005, 07:43 PM

Living on military bases for most of my life (father was in the navy), and still at the moment, I get to see reports on television about things the troops in Iraq are doing such as building schools, shelters, helping people out, etc. None of this really makes it to the front page of global news because generally people want to be stuck in the idiotic thought process that America is over there shooting anything that moves and it carrying barrels of oil out.

I know this will recieve a lot of flack, but I support any war against Islamic states. People can bark up and down about how violent and oppressive the US is, but just take a look at Islam. Want to cop out to the politically correct myth about how it's only small amounts of Muslims? Read the Qur'an. Peaceful passages? A great deal of them have been abrogated by later, violent, passages.

lisa

12-30-2005, 09:54 PM

mr. dynamite

12-30-2005, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by ::friendly ghost::
word..

my dad joined the army to get in on the g.i. bill and go to college, but he refused to fire his gun at anybody and told his commanding officers so. he said they could send him to the front lines and put him in harm's way, he wasn't scared, but nobody could make a murderer out of him. he never killed anybody either, altho he saw some nasty stuff...

ummmm isnt this insubordination?
i think that if you do this in the military you get like... uhhh disciplined severely?

sorry to be "that guy" but your father's sotry sounds a little suspect...

:eek:

kittybear

12-30-2005, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by ..i..
Living on military bases for most of my life (father was in the navy), and still at the moment, I get to see reports on television about things the troops in Iraq are doing such as building schools, shelters, helping people out, etc. None of this really makes it to the front page of global news because generally people want to be stuck in the idiotic thought process that America is over there shooting anything that moves and it carrying barrels of oil out.

I know this will recieve a lot of flack, but I support any war against Islamic states. People can bark up and down about how violent and oppressive the US is, but just take a look at Islam. Want to cop out to the politically correct myth about how it's only small amounts of Muslims? Read the Qur'an. Peaceful passages? A great deal of them have been abrogated by later, violent, passages.

youre wrong...a lot of that stuff..buiding schools and what not does make it to the front page...havent you heard...its a very unpopular war...they want to justify it..and thats how they do it...

and helping people out..sure sure..but giving someone a prostetic arm just doesnt quite mean the same thing...when one of your comrades blew it off...

and i dont think that anyone has said they think us soilders are shooting anything that moves...but there is an awfuly high iraqi civilian death toll...anyone sure of the number...??cause i havent seen it reported in quite a while...but death is a type of freedom right...??yyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy operation iraqi freedom...you have suceeded...*salutes in a condencending manor*

and omfg...one of my very best friends is muslim...and yeah no...violence isnt part of her daily religous practices...and ive read the koran..and umm violent passages...??care to highlight a few...??

kittybear

12-30-2005, 10:44 PM

::friendly ghost::

12-30-2005, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by krut!!!!
ummmm isnt this insubordination?
i think that if you do this in the military you get like... uhhh disciplined severely?

sorry to be "that guy" but your father's sotry sounds a little suspect...

:eek:

yeah, maybe... but it's consistent with everything i've seen about my old man. he quit his job as deputy district attorney when i was a kid cos he didn't want to prosecute people he thought might not be guilty... and started defending a bunch of hippies and lowlifes who hardly ever paid him a dime, so we were poor my whole childhood...

maybe it was different back then. it was the end of the korean war and there wasn't a big culture of protest, so maybe the military was more willing to accomodate the occasional guy taking a stand... he told me the story years ago so maybe i'm remembering it funny... i'll ask him when i visit him tomorrow

mr. dynamite

12-30-2005, 10:47 PM

i mean, theo nly reason i said that is that a squad cannot afford to have a man who refuses to fight,
it puts the rest of the men in danger,
it just dindt make sense i guess but sorry for saying it.

kurt.

lisa

12-30-2005, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by kittybear
but death is a type of freedom right...??yyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy operation iraqi freedom...you have suceeded...*salutes in a condencending manor*

and omfg...one of my very best friends is muslim...and yeah no...violence isnt part of her daily religous practices...and ive read the koran..and umm violent passages...??care to highlight a few...??

*joins in the salute*

oh and to add to the ridiculousness of that total bs statement - the bible isnt totally violent??? gimme a break.

::friendly ghost::

12-30-2005, 10:58 PM

Originally posted by krut!!!!
i mean, theo nly reason i said that is that a squad cannot afford to have a man who refuses to fight,
it puts the rest of the men in danger,
it just dindt make sense i guess but sorry for saying it.

kurt.

no way, don't say sorry, never be sorry to ask for the truth... it's a good question, i never thought to ask it... i'm curious myself now, so i'm gonna ask him.

freckled star

12-31-2005, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by lisa
*joins in the salute*

oh and to add to the ridiculousness of that total bs statement - the bible isnt totally violent??? gimme a break.

I wonder if "..i.." has considered the great irony of her/his statement: he/she is supporting war (and thus violence) against a group because that group has a perceived tendency towards violence and war.

The Bible and Quran both are saturated with moments of extreme violence and surpreme serenity. The problem is not the religion, but the fundamentalist approach. That approach has led to plenty of violence in Muslim nations, to Christian nations becoming involved in violent atrocities like the Crusades, and to the present day US - a nation heavily influenced by Christian fundamentalism at the moment - turning its sights towards war in the middle east.

The approach "..i.." suggests is a fundamentalist one: all or most Muslims are bad, because their book is bad, therefore they must be eliminated.

Changing directions, I think it's a very understandable conflict we're having in this thread. Should we support our troops even though we think what they're doing is wrong? Are troops automatically bad for not refusing to fight and being involved in the armed forces in the first place?

Well, yes we should support the troops, but putting a sticker on your car or smiling at a heartwarming story about the triumph of the human spirit is probably not really what it means to "support our troops" when the fundamental problem they're facing is not the unstable conditions in the Middle East, but rather the system that puts them there and requires them to work (and sometimes kill) for a cause of dubious integrity. Of course I support anyone attempting to improve conditions in Iraq, but I believe it makes more sense to focus our support for them on breaking down that dysfunctional system than to focus it on supporting them in cleaning up the mess they were forced to deal with.

Finally, I agree with the idea that we ought to remember where this land came from, and that we are not clean of the dirty act that was its appropriation just because we didn't personally commit it. Nevertheless, I think the reality is that we are now in a world that requires people to really recognize their interconnectedness and start caring and healing together.

The solution isn't to move back to the impovershed Irish farmland your family perhaps came from (for instance), but rather to recognize the responsibility that comes with inhereting a land with such a tumultuous, bloody history. The solution is not, of course, to forget about what happened and turn our sights to killing Muslims. However, while I think we must remember that we do not have any entitlement (if we are not Native Americans) to it, I think the real answer to not being hypocritical isn't leaving, but staying and working to really repair what people have messed up (kind of like Iraq, huh?).

Here's wishing on this New Year that Muslims, Christians, and the rest of us pay attention to the peaceful passages when developing their personal philosophy, not the violent and destructive ones.

Kris K

12-31-2005, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by kittybear

and omfg...one of my very best friends is muslim...and yeah no...violence isnt part of her daily religous practices...and ive read the koran..and umm violent passages...??care to highlight a few...??

Of course.

“Then when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful” (Qur'an 9:5)

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” (Qur'an 9:29).

The only peace the Qur'an preachs is for those of the same religion or those willing to convert.

Slice it anyway you want to, there isn't a religion more dangerous in modern times than Islam.

Kris K

12-31-2005, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by lisa
D: wow, in this post you have proved that you grew up on a base where of course the "good" news is all you get, and that you're a bit of a racist.

No, actually, we get access to CNN, BBC, Sky News, etc, etc, all the worldwide news agencies pretty much. And if being "racist," is hating a religion which preaches death and war, and who's followers partake in suicide bombings, oppressing women, and believe in such barbaric rituals, then so be it.

Kris K

12-31-2005, 06:34 AM

Ok I agree with you guys now! You know why? Because Iraq was a beautiful utopia before America moved in. Hussein wasn't murdering thousands of people over the past 20 years or so, he was handing out flowers to the women, who were able to partake in voting, schools, and enjoyed the freedom of walkin down the streets without covering their faces. Also, a bunch of families weren't brutally murdered and burried in the desert, they were really all moved to Florida as part of Hussein's "no family left behind," initiative. Hussein didn't make militaristic threats in the past, he was just joking!

Unjustified, my ass. This war was a long time coming. Every single war before this has had high civilian casualties, and every war after it will have them as well. A lot of it is because of mistakes made by the US Army, but you can surely attribute a lot of it to the suicide bombings which occur in Iraq nearly every damn day.

Kris K

12-31-2005, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by lisa
*joins in the salute*

oh and to add to the ridiculousness of that total bs statement - the bible isnt totally violent??? gimme a break.

The Bible is violent, but the followers of the Christian religion aren't strapping themselves with bombs to intentionally blow up innocent civillians because they don't believe in their religion or the score of other violent actions Islam preaches and many followers practice.

jsunshyne

12-31-2005, 08:19 AM

...life can often suck at times...
...i am sure it sucked for all of the indigenous people that once inhabitated n.america before "our" ancestors decided to escape their persecution in order to live peacefully within their own beliefs...
...but, people already lived here...
so we did the capitalist thing
i.e.
...trick 'em into thinking we are helping them,for we knew how to divert their internal tribal fighting into "our" gain...
...so we give them the fire water and guns to help them kill each other and theirselves...
by the time they caught onto it was too late
...they had already been forced/tricked into being docile with living on their own land that was alloted to them in the form of reservations or slums...
...while their population eventually becomes obsolete
...but then again "this land is "our" land"...
...life can often suck at times...

stee_doc

12-31-2005, 08:53 AM

'god knows why my country don't give a fuck'

-- dear i (with your bob dylan avatar), why should the US be the ones to decide when a war is right and how to wage it? why should they class themselves as the world police? and why should capitalism be the only thing on earth?? it sickens me deeply.

Kris K

12-31-2005, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by stee_doc
'god knows why my country don't give a fuck'

-- dear i (with your bob dylan avatar), why should the US be the ones to decide when a war is right and how to wage it? why should they class themselves as the world police? and why should capitalism be the only thing on earth?? it sickens me deeply.

I don't get what you guys want. Without US interference, Hussein would still be in power and be continuing his murderous regime. Mass amounts of death and destruction have existed in Iraq long before the US entered. I believe it was the right thing to do. A murderous dictater was destroying his own people, had a long history of war, etc, etc. That's more than enough cause to justify a war and removal of Hussein's political party.

Do you guys just think we should've ignored what was going on?

Hopefully it's Iran next.

lisa

12-31-2005, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by ..i..
Slice it anyway you want to, there isn't a religion more dangerous in modern times than Islam.
--
And if being "racist," is hating a religion which preaches death and war, and who's followers partake in suicide bombings, oppressing women, and believe in such barbaric rituals, then so be it.
--
Ok I agree with you guys now! You know why? Because Iraq was a beautiful utopia before America moved in. Hussein wasn't murdering thousands of people over the past 20 years or so, he was handing out flowers to the women, who were able to partake in voting, schools, and enjoyed the freedom of walkin down the streets without covering their faces. Also, a bunch of families weren't brutally murdered and burried in the desert, they were really all moved to Florida as part of Hussein's "no family left behind," initiative. Hussein didn't make militaristic threats in the past, he was just joking!

Unjustified, my ass. This war was a long time coming. Every single war before this has had high civilian casualties, and every war after it will have them as well. A lot of it is because of mistakes made by the US Army, but you can surely attribute a lot of it to the suicide bombings which occur in Iraq nearly every damn day.
--
The Bible is violent, but the followers of the Christian religion aren't strapping themselves with bombs to intentionally blow up innocent civillians because they don't believe in their religion or the score of other violent actions Islam preaches and many followers practice.
--
I don't get what you guys want. Without US interference, Hussein would still be in power and be continuing his murderous regime. Mass amounts of death and destruction have existed in Iraq long before the US entered. I believe it was the right thing to do. A murderous dictater was destroying his own people, had a long history of war, etc, etc. That's more than enough cause to justify a war and removal of Hussein's political party.

Do you guys just think we should've ignored what was going on?

Hopefully it's Iran next.

wow. there is so much wrong in everything you've said its almost pointless to even respond. I dont even know where to begin.
freckled star did respond, and you completely ignored his very well said post because his points prove how sick and twisted your thought processes are. i almost feel bad for you, but you cant help being so fully brainwashed with the environment you grew up in.and the irony of you having a bob dylan (the most recognized anti-war performer of all time) as your avatar is truly hilarious.

lets fight violence with violence! YES!
america is NOT the fucking world police kid, maybe if they would stop trying to designate themselves as such, the rest of the world wouldnt be so pissed at that country and then america wouldnt need to go kill more innocent civilians. and designating one religion more violent and racist than another is complete bs. there is NO difference betweent the violence/hatemongering/lack of womens rights etc from christian to muslim beliefs... we just got it right quite recently (and its still not equality for women/different races here in north america - your posts alone prove the racism and the fact that women still get paid less than men to do the same job and are promoted based on their phsycal beauty rather than experience/skill proves the other)

everything that was wrong in iraq is what is still so wrong in western society. how you are blind to that is beyond me. just because its less hidden that doesnt make it any worse. saddam was sick, no one denys that, but imo no sicker than george w. and his puppeteers. america is no more of a democracy than iraq was. george w. was NOT elected president the first time, anyone with half a clue knows that.
and how is sending your youth out to kill, instilling violence, racism, hatred, opression in them so georgie could get some more oil (AND everyone knows this war is about OIL! dont kid yourself) any different than what saddam did? different levels of evil are still evil.

and about ignoring whats going on - well you are surely ignoring whats happening in north korea which is definitely much more of a threat.
not to mention your point about muslims strapping on bombs, that was al queda not iraq you dumbass! they tried to make up links between they to give some justification but it was also proved false, there was NO reason to destroy iraq other than to get saddam out, which is something they should have done MANY years ago when georges daddy was instead HELPING saddam.
you could be the posterboy for the typical brainwashed american. i hope youve enlisted yourself to go fight that fake war.

"He's taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
'Bout the shape that he's in
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game."

lisa

12-31-2005, 12:57 PM

and bob dylan has something to say to you:

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

lisa

12-31-2005, 12:59 PM

and he also says this:

Oh my name it is nothin'
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I's taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that land that I live in
Has God on its side.

Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side.

Oh the Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I's made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side.

Oh the First World War, boys
It closed out its fate
The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side.

When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.

I've learned to hate Russians
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.

But now we got weapons
Of the chemical dust
If fire them we're forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side.

In a many dark hour
I've been thinkin' about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can't think for you
You'll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.

So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.

SardonicTexan

12-31-2005, 01:29 PM

oldamericancentury.org has a bunch of great news stories reported on by the major 3 that are just burried under all the bullshit

::friendly ghost::

12-31-2005, 10:48 PM

i don't really blame this '...i...' fellow for objecting to oppressive theocracies in the middle east, but he'd have more cred with me if he equally objected to bush's squad of fundamentalist kooks...

and lisa's right, it's goofy to advocate war as a solution to political violence. if we really wanted to change things in the middle east, we'd pressure them economically by finding alternatives to oil... but this war's not about liberating the oppressed, otherwise, we wouldn't be so chummy with the saudis, nor with the right-wing goon squads we funded in central america...

'...i...' is right about one thing, tho. in this country, we're civilized. we don't strap on bombs and suicide ourselves. when we wanna kill the enemy, we sit at home on our duffs, rattle our sabers, and sent other people's kids out to die and kill... infinitely preferable, to be sure...

and kurt, i rapped with my pop today. i guess i was remembering it wrong. my dad told his c.o.'s that he refused to kill anybody, but he was still stateside. the war ended before his company was sent overseas... he doesn't know why he wasn't disciplined. maybe the officers figured he'd change his tune under fire??

heavymetalmouthagain

12-31-2005, 11:44 PM

hey ivan you crazy fucker
yah I'm drunk
I love yah man.....
hang loosely...
be cool great to see yah
good bless
we tight right?
peace to you and your family

lisa

01-01-2006, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by ::friendly ghost::
'...i...' is right about one thing, tho. in this country, we're civilized. we don't strap on bombs and suicide ourselves. when we wanna kill the enemy, we sit at home on our duffs, rattle our sabers, and sent other people's kids out to die and kill... infinitely preferable, to be sure...

and just as fucked up.

kittybear

01-01-2006, 02:16 AM

Originally posted by ..i..
Of course.

“Then when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful” (Qur'an 9:5)

“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” (Qur'an 9:29).

The only peace the Qur'an preachs is for those of the same religion or those willing to convert.

Slice it anyway you want to, there isn't a religion more dangerous in modern times than Islam.

im sorry but i would like to see the first one with some context...because i could quote something very similar from henry V...and id bet i could quote something very similair from any general during any war...and id bet if i look hard enough i could find the same thing a few times in the bible...

and the same thing goes for the second one...dont you know any history...??mohammed was at war brotha...that was mohammed saying even though we're at war because they refused to accept him as gods lastest profit...and refused what was the lastest instalment in gods words and the lastest edition of his book..by the way they are the same god...derived from judaism...he would call it off if they would just accept what he claimed were gods words...or pay a tax...

hmmmmmmm...calling off war for acceptance or a tax...yeah thats sooo violent...

where did you get these quotes from...?? koranoutofcontext dot com...??or was it a dot org...??

oh and this...

"The only peace the Qur'an preachs is for those of the same religion or those willing to convert. "

on more than one occasion hostages/prisioners of war have received good treatment and even been released because they asked for a bible...not the koran...they respect other religions...what they dont respect are some of the more raunchy aspects of western culture...and honestly...i dont like seeing paris hiltons ass either...

and of course if you looked at any religion...you would find a few blemishes in its history...a crazy evangelist here...a murdering morman there...but i hope you realize that those people arent representative of their religion even if they claim to be...as youve kindly demonstrated words can be taken out of context and be made to mean something else...every easily...

p.s...mr kris k...you scare me...

::friendly ghost::

01-01-2006, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by mrpittypotty
hey ivan you crazy fucker
yah I'm drunk
I love yah man.....
hang loosely...
be cool great to see yah
good bless
we tight right?
peace to you and your family

you bet yer sweet ass, palsy... here's some luv right back atcha

:heart:

and kittybear, when're ya gonna crank out a book or somep'n??? because, for sheer delightfulness, you take the cake... i could sit n' ponder your posts all day...

::friendly ghost::

01-01-2006, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by ..i..
The only peace the Qur'an preachs is for those of the same religion or those willing to convert.

Slice it anyway you want to, there isn't a religion more dangerous in modern times than Islam.

i'm not trying to rain on your parade, pal... those nutty mullahs n' clerics rankle my ass, too... altho like most fundamentalist types, i think they're pretty far from the mainstream...

but isn't offering to spare our enemies if they were willing to convert what we've always done??? the indians who gave up their tribal ways for western duds and reservation life were spared slaughter by uncle sam... sometimes... and if those pesky koreans and vietnamese would only have converted to yankee capitalism, there'd have been no need to napalm their citizens and destroy their infrastructure...

Kris K

01-01-2006, 10:42 AM

Originally posted by lisa
wow. there is so much wrong in everything you've said its almost pointless to even respond. I dont even know where to begin.
1) freckled star did respond, and you completely ignored his very well said post because his points prove how sick and twisted your thought processes are. i almost feel bad for you, but you cant help being so fully brainwashed with the environment you grew up in.and the irony of you having a bob dylan (the most recognized anti-war performer of all time) as your avatar is truly hilarious.

2) lets fight violence with violence! YES!
america is NOT the fucking world police kid, maybe if they would stop trying to designate themselves as such, the rest of the world wouldnt be so pissed at that country and then america wouldnt need to go kill more innocent civilians. and designating one religion more violent and racist than another is complete bs. there is NO difference betweent the violence/hatemongering/lack of womens rights etc from christian to muslim beliefs... we just got it right quite recently (and its still not equality for women/different races here in north america - your posts alone prove the racism and the fact that women still get paid less than men to do the same job and are promoted based on their phsycal beauty rather than experience/skill proves the other)

3) everything that was wrong in iraq is what is still so wrong in western society. how you are blind to that is beyond me. just because its less hidden that doesnt make it any worse. saddam was sick, no one denys that, but imo no sicker than george w. and his puppeteers. america is no more of a democracy than iraq was. george w. was NOT elected president the first time, anyone with half a clue knows that.
and how is sending your youth out to kill, instilling violence, racism, hatred, opression in them so georgie could get some more oil (AND everyone knows this war is about OIL! dont kid yourself) any different than what saddam did? different levels of evil are still evil.

4) and about ignoring whats going on - well you are surely ignoring whats happening in north korea which is definitely much more of a threat.
not to mention your point about muslims strapping on bombs, that was al queda not iraq you dumbass! they tried to make up links between they to give some justification but it was also proved false, there was NO reason to destroy iraq other than to get saddam out, which is something they should have done MANY years ago when georges daddy was instead HELPING saddam.
you could be the posterboy for the typical brainwashed american. i hope youve enlisted yourself to go fight that fake war.

"He's taught in his school
From the start by the rule
That the laws are with him
To protect his white skin
To keep up his hate
So he never thinks straight
'Bout the shape that he's in
But it ain't him to blame
He's only a pawn in their game."

1) Sorry, I don't have time to give full attention to every reply made to me here, nor do I care really. And if I'm brainwashed by my enviorment, then what are you guys? Brainwashed by some Pc Liberal dream that world peace is a possibility? Bitch please.

2) Yeah, unequal wages is pretty much on par with a woman being brutally murdered because she had premarital sex. Yeah, same thing. Seriously, just shut the fuck up and stop fishing for such retarded points. America acts as the world's police, because they have the most power. I wouldn't want it any other way.

3) Typical liberal bullshit. To say that Hussein is on the same level as George W. Bush is just retarded. People in America have many more rights than in anywhere else in the world. How about you stop watching so many Michael Moore movies and actually open your fucking eyes to your surroundings?

4) Oh, so there's no suicide bombers/bombings in Iraq? :lol: Well played moron. I think we should just annex Iraq, and then go on for the entire middle east. They've proven time time again that they are by no means fit to run their own countries with their barbaric religions and political systems. They're animals, nothing more.

Oh yeah, I hope we bomb the shit out of North Korea to, so you guys can all switch positions again and say the war is unjustified.

Power to America!

kittybear

01-01-2006, 10:48 AM

well someone woke up on the bitchy side of the bed this morning...

why dont you start a club...

you can call it the new neo nazis...

or would that suggest to open of a membership policy for ya...??

Kris K

01-01-2006, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by ::friendly ghost::
i don't really blame this '...i...' fellow for objecting to oppressive theocracies in the middle east, but he'd have more cred with me if he equally objected to bush's squad of fundamentalist kooks...

and lisa's right, it's goofy to advocate war as a solution to political violence. if we really wanted to change things in the middle east, we'd pressure them economically by finding alternatives to oil... but this war's not about liberating the oppressed, otherwise, we wouldn't be so chummy with the saudis, nor with the right-wing goon squads we funded in central america...

'...i...' is right about one thing, tho. in this country, we're civilized. we don't strap on bombs and suicide ourselves. when we wanna kill the enemy, we sit at home on our duffs, rattle our sabers, and sent other people's kids out to die and kill... infinitely preferable, to be sure...

and kurt, i rapped with my pop today. i guess i was remembering it wrong. my dad told his c.o.'s that he refused to kill anybody, but he was still stateside. the war ended before his company was sent overseas... he doesn't know why he wasn't disciplined. maybe the officers figured he'd change his tune under fire??

I doubt any economic sanctions would stop Hussein from killing. The cover ups would just increase. I wonder how many more mass graves are out there. He had to go, period.

Also, these "other people's kids," signed up for the armed forces on their own, no one forced them to. If you don't want to fight a war, don't join the military.

kittybear

01-01-2006, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by ..i..
I doubt any economic sanctions would stop Hussein from killing. The cover ups would just increase. I wonder how many more mass graves are out there. He had to go, period.

Also, these "other people's kids," signed up for the armed forces on their own, no one forced them to. If you don't want to fight a war, don't join the military.

bitch please...we dont need no economic sanctions...dudes like totally in da jail house eating them american style blueberry muffins...cnn says theyre his fav....

and you obviously arent watching cnn cause if you was...you would have totally known that...

and just cause i like saying it..bitch please..forced is a relative statement...

did we force saddam to take our weapons fifteen years ago...technically no...but as they say...we made him an offer he just couldnt refuse...

Kris K

01-01-2006, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by kittybear
im sorry but i would like to see the first one with some context...because i could quote something very similar from henry V...and id bet i could quote something very similair from any general during any war...and id bet if i look hard enough i could find the same thing a few times in the bible...

and the same thing goes for the second one...dont you know any history...??mohammed was at war brotha...that was mohammed saying even though we're at war because they refused to accept him as gods lastest profit...and refused what was the lastest instalment in gods words and the lastest edition of his book..by the way they are the same god...derived from judaism...he would call it off if they would just accept what he claimed were gods words...or pay a tax...

hmmmmmmm...calling off war for acceptance or a tax...yeah thats sooo violent...

where did you get these quotes from...?? koranoutofcontext dot com...??or was it a dot org...??

oh and this...

"The only peace the Qur'an preachs is for those of the same religion or those willing to convert. "

on more than one occasion hostages/prisioners of war have received good treatment and even been released because they asked for a bible...not the koran...they respect other religions...what they dont respect are some of the more raunchy aspects of western culture...and honestly...i dont like seeing paris hiltons ass either...

and of course if you looked at any religion...you would find a few blemishes in its history...a crazy evangelist here...a murdering morman there...but i hope you realize that those people arent representative of their religion even if they claim to be...as youve kindly demonstrated words can be taken out of context and be made to mean something else...every easily...

p.s...mr kris k...you scare me...

Who's as savage as the Muslims these days? No one!

You can revert back to history as much as you want to, Muslims have been violent ever since Muhammad was ran out of Mecca because no one accepted his beliefs and he started raiding caravans. Back in the day, there was adequate resistance, the same thing needs to be going on today. I'm glad that America had the initiative to take it up.

But even at the same time, America is home to many Muslims. We let them come to our country, we let them work, we let them build mosques, etc, etc, etc. Good luck trying to build a Christian church in Iraq, not gonna happen.

kittybear

01-01-2006, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by ..i..
Who's as savage as the Muslims these days? No one!

You can revert back to history as much as you want to, Muslims have been violent ever since Muhammad was ran out of Mecca because no one accepted his beliefs and he started raiding caravans. Back in the day, there was adequate resistance, the same thing needs to be going on today. I'm glad that America had the initiative to take it up.

But even at the same time, America is home to many Muslims. We let them come to our country, we let them work, we let them build mosques, etc, etc, etc. Good luck trying to build a Christian church in Iraq, not gonna happen.

your argument was that the koran was a uber violent book...you failed that..so oh no...they are just soooo violent..omg omg omg omg..and oh yeah...omg...

and and all that history stuff...they started it...they didnt like thinking their dude wasnt the final word...

just grow up stop being a racist lil war monering whore...

and by all those things that we let them do..omg we let them live...how fucking libral of us...

oh and...

(missionaries..you know those dudes...they do have christian churches in iraq...you insolant lil shit...)

lisa

01-01-2006, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by ..i..
1) Sorry, I don't have time to give full attention to every reply made to me here, nor do I care really. And if I'm brainwashed by my enviorment, then what are you guys? Brainwashed by some Pc Liberal dream that world peace is a possibility? Bitch please.

2) Yeah, unequal wages is pretty much on par with a woman being brutally murdered because she had premarital sex. Yeah, same thing. Seriously, just shut the fuck up and stop fishing for such retarded points. America acts as the world's police, because they have the most power. I wouldn't want it any other way.

3) Typical liberal bullshit. To say that Hussein is on the same level as George W. Bush is just retarded. People in America have many more rights than in anywhere else in the world. How about you stop watching so many Michael Moore movies and actually open your fucking eyes to your surroundings?

4) Oh, so there's no suicide bombers/bombings in Iraq? :lol: Well played moron. I think we should just annex Iraq, and then go on for the entire middle east. They've proven time time again that they are by no means fit to run their own countries with their barbaric religions and political systems. They're animals, nothing more.

Oh yeah, I hope we bomb the shit out of North Korea to, so you guys can all switch positions again and say the war is unjustified.

Power to America!

are you in the KKK? hhhmmm thought so.

oh and just fyi, i dont agree with war anywhere, my point about north korea is that if this shit HAS to happen, at least have a REAL reason behind it, a REAL threat to America if youre gonna go send your kids out to fight and die. Iraq was no threat to america, youre in iraq now for profit and power as always. at least north korea could have been half justified and not just a bunch of lying bs.

oh and just because the inequality is on a different level, its still ineqauity you idiot. how about you get an education OUTSIDE of military schools. youre brainwashed because you dont live in the real world and you likely have a father with a personality akin to the character of Sgt. Barnes in the film "Platoon"... the scariest kind of motherfucker around. And hes turned you into one of those types which is sad.

now are you enlisted to fight the war?? seriously, when are you going? take a bullet in the head for america kid, die for your country! do it! its honorable! youll be remembered, youll be a hero for fighting a war less than half of america believes in, and that the rest of the world doesnt believe in at all. :yes:

youre a fucking joke. and everytime you listen to a bob dylan song you make yourself look even more idiotic.

Kris K

01-01-2006, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by kittybear
your argument was that the koran was a uber violent book...you failed that..so oh no...they are just soooo violent..omg omg omg omg..and oh yeah...omg...

and and all that history stuff...they started it...they didnt like thinking their dude wasnt the final word...

just grow up stop being a racist lil war monering whore...

and by all those things that we let them do..omg we let them live...how fucking libral of us...

oh and...

(missionaries..you know those dudes...they do have christian churches in iraq...you insolant lil shit...)

It is a violent book. I posted passages and you all choosed to focus on the part pertaining to taxes rather than the rest of the passage which stated "fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day."

and

“Then when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful” (Qur'an 9:5)

and

“Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate” (Qu'ran 9:73)

and

“Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil: so fight ye against the friends of Satan” (Qur'an 4:76)

I don't see how I failed in showing that it is a violent book. Perhaps some reading and comprehension courses would be right up your alley?

Ah, and I'd assume that you'd know the difference between a missionary and a fully established church, but alas, I guess you fail again.

By all means try again. Some suggestions for next time though,

1) Actually formulate some good points (ie. know what you're talking about).
2) Learn how to spell
3) Refrain from all of this "omg," nonsense, what are you? 12?

Kris K

01-01-2006, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by lisa
are you in the KKK? hhhmmm thought so.

oh and just fyi, i dont agree with war anywhere, my point about north korea is that if this shit HAS to happen, at least have a REAL reason behind it, a REAL threat to America if youre gonna go send your kids out to fight and die. Iraq was no threat to america, youre in iraq now for profit and power as always. at least north korea could have been half justified and not just a bunch of lying bs.

oh and just because the inequality is on a different level, its still ineqauity you idiot. how about you get an education OUTSIDE of military schools. youre brainwashed because you dont live in the real world and you likely have a father with a personality akin to the character of Sgt. Barnes in the film "Platoon"... the scariest kind of motherfucker around. And hes turned you into one of those types which is sad.

now are you enlisted to fight the war?? seriously, when are you going? take a bullet in the head for america kid, die for your country! do it! its honorable! youll be remembered, youll be a hero for fighting a war less than half of america believes in, and that the rest of the world doesnt believe in at all. :yes:

youre a fucking joke. and everytime you listen to a bob dylan song you make yourself look even more idiotic.

Regardless, As I've stated many of times before (and you all have attempted to side-step), Hussein had to go. You don't just pardon someone who has been slaughtering and persecuting his people for years just because he's no threat to you. You know what that is? Apathy.

It is still an inequality, but the severity of one is ten fold the amount of the other. Quit fishing for points when it's so painfully obvious that you don't even believe half of this shit you're talking about. Also, I have never been to a military school, and my dad has worked behind a desk for most of his military career so he doesn't exactly have the type of personality which you described. Lying, making up stuff, and making sweeping generalizations isn't going to get you anywhere in this debate, so stop it.

I'm not in the military, nor do I have any plans on joining up. But I do support the troops and wish them the best.

Ah, and focusing on Dylan again? So, are you saying that you wouldn't listen to an artist if you didn't agree with his political stance? That's retarded, just drop it. I'm also a fan of Rage Against The Machine. It's good music.

lisa

01-01-2006, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by ..i..
By all means try again. Some suggestions for next time though,

1) Actually formulate some good points (ie. know what you're talking about).
2) Learn how to spell
3) Refrain from all of this "omg," nonsense, what are you? 12?

1) you might wanna try that and stop going back to the end justifys the means bullshit. get an education.
2) its the INTERNET, not a critical essay, people can spell how they want
3) so youre a racist/asshole/psychotic republican and you think people should type the way you do? get over yourself. brini, most everyone here loves that you type the way you talk.

and how can you listen to and enjoy an artist who insults your very character? weird.

kittybear

01-01-2006, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by ..i..

By all means try again. Some suggestions for next time though,

1) Actually formulate some good points (ie. know what you're talking about).
2) Learn how to spell
3) Refrain from all of this "omg," nonsense, what are you? 12?

awwwwwww...you disapear for a few hours and come back with the same thing...that soooo cute....

awwwwwww...you must have missed what i posted..see...i think i only mentioned the tax thing like once..but i had a whole sorta paragraph about how those were war cries of sorts...and i just hope you arent so far gone that the difference between decribing battle/what was said during battle and inciting murder as a thing to do on a saterday afterrnon...

tell me is the lion the witch and the wardrobe too violent a book for you...??

and okay...ill will give you that youve pointed out how islamic fundamentalist might misread/misunderstand the book...but how it that any different from christian fundamentalits doing the same thing...??

why not bitch about that for a minute...??

and awwww as soon as you have some good points...ill put the extra effort into my posts...kay...okay...

hint: racism...isnt a good point...

and awwwwwww...have you nothing left but to attack my inability to spell...??thats okay..ill go cry in the corner for awhile...

and...omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg...nooooo im not twelve but i turn twelve next friday...you must be psychic..or is it psychotic..i forget the difference...maybe ill get a pocket dictionary for my birfday...

Originally posted by ..i..
Regardless, As I've stated many of times before (and you all have attempted to side-step), Hussein had to go. You don't just pardon someone who has been slaughtering and persecuting his people for years just because he's no threat to you. You know what that is? Apathy.

It is still an inequality, but the severity of one is ten fold the amount of the other. Quit fishing for points when it's so painfully obvious that you don't even believe half of this shit you're talking about. Also, I have never been to a military school, and my dad has worked behind a desk for most of his military career so he doesn't exactly have the type of personality which you described. Lying, making up stuff, and making sweeping generalizations isn't going to get you anywhere in this debate, so stop it.

oh....oh oh oh..lisa i hope you dont mind but i just have to respond to this...

no one has skirted the saddam thing...what you seem to have missed is that at least lisa and i i think lisa anyway...consider it a ridiculous argument considering we..the us enabled his power back when bush senior was el presidente...and to go back ten years later claiming its to fight terrorism...and then claiming it was to take down a dictator...to spread deomocracy...to preemtivly defend against weapons of mass desruction...that plenty of people knew didnt exist...

everything leading up to this was apathy...letting thousands of people dieall over the world when they could easily be saved is apathy...leting terrorism rule throughout africa and tear countries apart leaving hundreds and thousands to die while the us send five troops to guard a state building is apathy...

if your so concerend and un apthapethic...what have you done...??what have you donated...??what to you do to support troops...??

you know as well as anyone..or at least you should...there were easier places to start that didnt have an oil incentive...that didnt have militray contracts involved with personal friends...where there was more suffering...and a real threat to western civilization...

no one has spoken in favor of saddam...stop pretending that those who dont like the murdering and suffering that is taking place now were in favor or supoprt of him...

and please enlighten me...how is it obvious that lisa doesnt beleive what she is talking about...??

::friendly ghost::

01-01-2006, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by ..i..
1) Actually formulate some good points (ie. know what you're talking about).
2) Learn how to spell
3) Refrain from all of this "omg," nonsense, what are you? 12?

watch it, buster...

you seem to have a nasty li'l totalitarian streak... trying to dictate the terms of argument, busting chops for spelling errors like you're mister weatherbee, critquing grammar and whatnot...

if you have such a controlling personality, maybe you should sit and do some soul-searching, and try and develop a healthier philosophy of life, instead of trying to make the rest of the world tow the line, and calling for endless war...

and if i've pegged you wrong, sorry, but you're at least partially responsible, for creating such an unfavorable impression of yourself. and i don't mean your politics, cos people of good will can disagree on these issues. it's your eagerness to attack and disparage others that makes me wonder how much actual concern you have for hussein's victims. especially considering that almost all his victims were muslims themselves, and therefore "savages", as you put it... why do you want to sacrifice good yankee blood for people you consider to be violent savages?? it doesn't add up... it seems like a mask...

it really seems like you're hiding behind a pose of humanitarian concern in order to vent your aggression.. and that's exactly the sort of personality tic that many warlords and dictators have always had in common...

they say that we become the thing we hate, and ya might wanna ponder that li'l sentiment next time you start foaming at the mouth about hateful savages

kittybear

01-01-2006, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by lisa

and how can you listen to and enjoy an artist who insults your very character? weird.

this confuses me too...cause like really...wouldnt you either start hating yourself...and self hate is soooo '94...or like get mad that your character is being insulted...and getting mad at music is like sooo '97...

pfft...yeah...weird...

lisa

01-01-2006, 04:22 PM

i would reply to his psychotic banter but brini and ivan have said everything that needs to be said :yes:

Kris K

01-01-2006, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by lisa
1) you might wanna try that and stop going back to the end justifys the means bullshit. get an education.
2) its the INTERNET, not a critical essay, people can spell how they want
3) so youre a racist/asshole/psychotic republican and you think people should type the way you do? get over yourself. brini, most everyone here loves that you type the way you talk.

and how can you listen to and enjoy an artist who insults your very character? weird.

:lol: I can't believe after all I've typed, you focused on the most unimportant part. Nice debate technique, moron.

1) You might want to actually attempt to debate instead of just relying on this emotional pc-mindset.

2) Well, I just find it ironic that someone with such poor grammar, spelling and knowledge has the tenacity to call me an idiot :)

3) So you're a moron and should refrain from entering into a debate in which you know close to nothing about.

Since when did the bulk of Dylan's material become about war? I appreciate his storytelling ability and lyrics, he has the occasional anti-war song here and there, but that's not all he's about. Also, I do not seek political advice from musicians, so it's simply not a problem for me.

kittybear

01-01-2006, 04:30 PM

wait wait wait wait wait...

did i call you an idiot...??

i know i called you racist..and insolent...but idiot...??

i wouldnt argue against your idiocy..but i dont think i said it...

kittybear

01-01-2006, 04:31 PM

and hey...i would never claim to know how to spell or to kow anything about grammar...but dont dis me knowlegde bitch...

oh yeah i also called youa bitch...but you totally are...dont deny it...

lisa

01-01-2006, 04:33 PM

he is officially out of his mind. dont bother anymore brini.

kittybear

01-01-2006, 04:37 PM

ohhhhhhh...but im having fun now...

:D

Kris K

01-01-2006, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by kittybear
1) awwwwwww...you disapear for a few hours and come back with the same thing...that soooo cute....

awwwwwww...you must have missed what i posted..see...i think i only mentioned the tax thing like once..but i had a whole sorta paragraph about how those were war cries of sorts...and i just hope you arent so far gone that the difference between decribing battle/what was said during battle and inciting murder as a thing to do on a saterday afterrnon...

2) tell me is the lion the witch and the wardrobe too violent a book for you...??

3) and okay...ill will give you that youve pointed out how islamic fundamentalist might misread/misunderstand the book...but how it that any different from christian fundamentalits doing the same thing...??

why not bitch about that for a minute...??

10) and awwww as soon as you have some good points...ill put the extra effort into my posts...kay...okay...

hint: racism...isnt a good point...

and awwwwwww...have you nothing left but to attack my inability to spell...??thats okay..ill go cry in the corner for awhile...

4) and...omgomgomgomgomgomgomgomg...nooooo im not twelve but i turn twelve next friday...you must be psychic..or is it psychotic..i forget the difference...maybe ill get a pocket dictionary for my birfday...

oh....oh oh oh..lisa i hope you dont mind but i just have to respond to this...

5) no one has skirted the saddam thing...what you seem to have missed is that at least lisa and i i think lisa anyway...consider it a ridiculous argument considering we..the us enabled his power back when bush senior was el presidente...and to go back ten years later claiming its to fight terrorism...and then claiming it was to take down a dictator...to spread deomocracy...to preemtivly defend against weapons of mass desruction...that plenty of people knew didnt exist...

6) everything leading up to this was apathy...letting thousands of people dieall over the world when they could easily be saved is apathy...leting terrorism rule throughout africa and tear countries apart leaving hundreds and thousands to die while the us send five troops to guard a state building is apathy...

7) if your so concerend and un apthapethic...what have you done...??what have you donated...??what to you do to support troops...??

8) you know as well as anyone..or at least you should...there were easier places to start that didnt have an oil incentive...that didnt have militray contracts involved with personal friends...where there was more suffering...and a real threat to western civilization...

9) no one has spoken in favor of saddam...stop pretending that those who dont like the murdering and suffering that is taking place now were in favor or supoprt of him...

and please enlighten me...how is it obvious that lisa doesnt beleive what she is talking about...??

1) Yes, it is a bit sad I am forced to repeat myself due to you all failing to grasp simple ideas.

2) I've never read it. Even so, there are many violent books, but none are as so widly followed as the Qu'ran.

3) Oh yeah, I must've missed the news reports about Christian suicide bombers, and all of the Christian women who are murdered because they had sex before they were married to a man their parents pick out.

4) Funny, that paragraph doesn't exhibit any less maturity then the rest of your response :)

5) Regardless, Hussein had to be taken out. Better late than never. I don't know how many times I have to exhaust this point.

6) Overthrowing Hussein is anything but Apathy. Saddamm murdering thousands and opressing his people without feeling any shame is apathy.

7) I am friends with many. I sure as hell don't bash them on the internet or at all.

8) :lol: Really now, how do you think we should've gone about getting Hussein out, then? Should we have sent him a polite greeting card urging him to turn himself in?

9) Hmmm, so you guys recognize that he was a bad person yet you are against a war in which he was eventually overthrown? Hmm, I guess you guys think WW2 was totally unjustified because innocent people died.

10) They way she is grappling onto small points which in the end don't matter. The entire "they're both still inequities," arguement when I brought up the subjugation of women compared to restrictions in Christianity was ridiculous. It's like justifying shooting someone in the chest after they broke your arm, claiming that it's equal because they are both injuries.

Kris K

01-01-2006, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by ::friendly ghost::
watch it, buster...

you seem to have a nasty li'l totalitarian streak... trying to dictate the terms of argument, busting chops for spelling errors like you're mister weatherbee, critquing grammar and whatnot...

if you have such a controlling personality, maybe you should sit and do some soul-searching, and try and develop a healthier philosophy of life, instead of trying to make the rest of the world tow the line, and calling for endless war...

and if i've pegged you wrong, sorry, but you're at least partially responsible, for creating such an unfavorable impression of yourself. and i don't mean your politics, cos people of good will can disagree on these issues. it's your eagerness to attack and disparage others that makes me wonder how much actual concern you have for hussein's victims. especially considering that almost all his victims were muslims themselves, and therefore "savages", as you put it... why do you want to sacrifice good yankee blood for people you consider to be violent savages?? it doesn't add up... it seems like a mask...

it really seems like you're hiding behind a pose of humanitarian concern in order to vent your aggression.. and that's exactly the sort of personality tic that many warlords and dictators have always had in common...

they say that we become the thing we hate, and ya might wanna ponder that li'l sentiment next time you start foaming at the mouth about hateful savages

Yes, Muslims not only attack other religions, they murder those of the same religion :lol: . Great defense.

Why do I believe in a war in Iraq under these conditions? Because it's not a central problem. The middle east is a breeding ground for hate and terrorism, and they don't just stick around, they travel worldwide. The war on Iraq is nipping the problem from the main source.

Kris K

01-01-2006, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by lisa
i would reply to his psychotic banter but brini and ivan have said everything that needs to be said :yes:

Plus, you have no idea what you're talking about in the first place. Maybe it's a good idea you sit this one out.

kittybear

01-01-2006, 04:52 PM

Originally posted by ..i..
1) Yes, it is a bit sad I am forced to repeat myself due to you all failing to grasp simple ideas.

2) I've never read it. Even so, there are many violent books, but none are as so widly followed as the Qu'ran.

3) Oh yeah, I must've missed the news reports about Christian suicide bombers, and all of the Christian women who are murdered because they had sex before they were married to a man their parents pick out.

4) Funny, that paragraph doesn't exhibit any less maturity then the rest of your response :)

5) Regardless, Hussein had to be taken out. Better late than never. I don't know how many times I have to exhaust this point.

6) Overthrowing Hussein is anything but Apathy. Saddamm murdering thousands and opressing his people without feeling any shame is apathy.

7) I am friends with many. I sure as hell don't bash them on the internet or at all.

8) :lol: Really now, how do you think we should've gone about getting Hussein out, then? Should we have sent him a polite greeting card urging him to turn himself in?

9) Hmmm, so you guys recognize that he was a bad person yet you are against a war in which he was eventually overthrown? Hmm, I guess you guys think WW2 was totally unjustified because innocent people died.

10) They way she is grappling onto small points which in the end don't matter. The entire "they're both still inequities," arguement when I brought up the subjugation of women compared to restrictions in Christianity was ridiculous. It's like justifying shooting someone in the chest after they broke your arm, claiming that it's equal because they are both injuries.

1...and you still havent proven your point...now that is dedication...im not sure to what...but good for you...

2...followed is a relative term...if by follow you mean read it understand it and live a peaceful ahppy life..cause yes omg there are happy muslims..then yes..but if by follow you mean distort and murder..than no...you have got to read up on yer christian history...

3...a...aranged marrages have a higher success rate...b...thats right christians dont kill themselves...they just kill others...and torment and harass others...and so youve never heard of parents kickingout their teenaged duagetr for haveing premarital sex...you belguims must have be special...

4...that was the point...:)your quick...

5..well you can only exhaust something once...hah...so you obviously havent exhausted it yet...keep forgetting about the rest of the world...its the trendy thing to do...

6...ugh...fine...ill call you an idiot...it was the wrong time biotch...it was an excuse to have kow results when they knew mnothign much was going to happen from their efforts of sending 50k soilders into the afganistan desert...it was just poorly planned...the entire world knows this...it isnt a secret...

7...being friends with isnt supporting them,..come on..send em some bug spray...or a copy of the bible or something...

8...umm waiting until they were prepaired miught have been nice...or not waiting until the could use internatinal terrorism as a threat..yeah that would have been good too...

9...pricibles brotha...and yeah ww2 did suck and you kow what the us didnt get involved there until it became of financial interest to them...geez i thought europeans were supposed to be better educated than americana...

10...umm yeah thats not showing how she doesnt beleive what shes said...she was just pointing out how silly you are...tis all...

kittybear

01-01-2006, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by ..i..
Plus, you have no idea what you're talking about in the first place. Maybe it's a good idea you sit this one out.

ugh...saying that she doesnt know what shes talking about doesnt make it true...

youre not that powerful...even if the lil voices say you are...

oh and kudos to you...youre getting very good at taking a itty bit of what someone has said and addign it to alot of what you wish they had said to sound even more smahhht...

or just leaving it out totally...but like that is soooo boring...

lisa

01-01-2006, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by kittybear
ugh...saying that she doesnt know what shes talking about doesnt make it true...

youre not that powerful...even if the lil voices say you are...

oh and kudos to you...youre getting very good at taking a itty bit of what someone has said and addign it to alot of what you wish they had said to sound even more smahhht...

or just leaving it out totally...but like that is soooo boring...

:lol:

i honestly didnt believe there were people our age as insane as this kid actually is.

mr. dynamite

01-01-2006, 05:03 PM

uhh,
iraq?
the main source?

uhhh,
way off.
wayyy off.
on more than just that but
lets see
if we look at the Sept. 11th hijackers as a sample of terrorists,
1) Khalid Almihdhar - Possible Saudi national

-Possible resident of San Diego, California, and New York

2) Majed Moqed - Possible Saudi national

3) Nawaf Alhazmi - Possible Saudi national

-Possible resident of Fort Lee, New Jersey; Wayne, New Jersey; San Diego, California

4) Salem Alhazmi - Possible Saudi national

-Possible resident of Fort Lee, New Jersey; Wayne, New Jersey

5) Hani Hanjour -

-Possible resident of Phoenix, Arizona, and San Diego, California

1) Satam M.A. Al Suqami- Possible Saudi national

Last known address: United Arab Emirates

2) Waleed M. Alshehri - Possible Saudi national

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Orlando, Florida; Daytona Beach, Florida

3) Wail M. Alshehri

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Newton, Massachusetts

4) Mohamed Atta - Possible Egyptian national

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Coral Springs, Florida; Hamburg, Germany

5) Abdulaziz Alomari - Possible Saudi national

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida

1) Marwan Al-Shehhi

-Date of birth used: May 9, 1978

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida

-Believed to be a pilot

-Alias: Marwan Yusif Muhammad Rashid Al-Shehi; Marwan Yusif Muhammad Rashid Lakrab Al-Shihhi; Abu Abdullah

notice any themes thereee???
weird neither do i!

also:
you havent said it formally but you are making arguments against Hussein whilst making arguments against the islamic faith, there is really NO TIE between the two,
unless i am mistaken, and i am 99.8787887% sure that im not,
saddam was a secularist,
he had as little respect for that religion as you do,
there are plenty of country's in the middle east who do have extreme ties with islam, but certainly not Iraq,

play nice.

::friendly ghost::

01-01-2006, 05:07 PM

hey kurt, no fair... bringing logic, reason, and facts to bear...

kittybear

01-01-2006, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by lisa
:lol:

i honestly didnt believe there were people our age as insane as this kid actually is.

youre just jealous you dont have lil fairies wispering sweet insane nothings into your ears...

and krut...what gives...posting like actual stuff...come on...

mr. dynamite

01-04-2006, 07:07 PM

u got served kris k
lololol.

lisa

01-04-2006, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by krut!!!!
u got served kris k
lololol.

amen brother.

his entire arguement makes no sense when the fact that sadam is secularist is brought to attention.

Kris K

01-05-2006, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by kittybear
1...and you still havent proven your point...now that is dedication...im not sure to what...but good for you...

2...followed is a relative term...if by follow you mean read it understand it and live a peaceful ahppy life..cause yes omg there are happy muslims..then yes..but if by follow you mean distort and murder..than no...you have got to read up on yer christian history...

3...a...aranged marrages have a higher success rate...b...thats right christians dont kill themselves...they just kill others...and torment and harass others...and so youve never heard of parents kickingout their teenaged duagetr for haveing premarital sex...you belguims must have be special...

4...that was the point...:)your quick...

5..well you can only exhaust something once...hah...so you obviously havent exhausted it yet...keep forgetting about the rest of the world...its the trendy thing to do...

6...ugh...fine...ill call you an idiot...it was the wrong time biotch...it was an excuse to have kow results when they knew mnothign much was going to happen from their efforts of sending 50k soilders into the afganistan desert...it was just poorly planned...the entire world knows this...it isnt a secret...

7...being friends with isnt supporting them,..come on..send em some bug spray...or a copy of the bible or something...

8...umm waiting until they were prepaired miught have been nice...or not waiting until the could use internatinal terrorism as a threat..yeah that would have been good too...

9...pricibles brotha...and yeah ww2 did suck and you kow what the us didnt get involved there until it became of financial interest to them...geez i thought europeans were supposed to be better educated than americana...

10...umm yeah thats not showing how she doesnt beleive what shes said...she was just pointing out how silly you are...tis all...

2) They're not distorting anything. The Qur'an urges the violence against other religions. There are many peaceful "muslims," who do not grasp this. It's the same case as someone referring to themselves as a certian religion because their family is predominatley made up of the same religion. It doesn't mean any extra understanding of the religion just because they are peaceful.

3) A) Yeah, because if they end up leaving the arranged husband the family either has to pay fines, taxes, and what have you, and more than often, the girl is met with a violent fate. So, if you think having someone sticking with someone else for the rest of their life through fear a success, then so be it.

B) Kicking a girl out of the house because she is pregnant is not on the same level as brutally murdering her. Moron.

6) Meh, better late than never. It could've been done earlier, but it's getting done now, we overthrew a murderous dictator.

8) Till who was prepared? Till they had a defensive built up? Seriously, mind your grammar, 6 year olds can write better than you.

9) Yeah yeah, focus on financial interests rather than the fact that we aided in overthrowing Hitler and saving millions of lives in the process.

10) Wrong. She's a moron, and she has proven so copious amounts of times in this thread.

Kris K

01-05-2006, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by krut!!!!
uhh,
iraq?
the main source?

uhhh,
way off.
wayyy off.
on more than just that but
lets see
if we look at the Sept. 11th hijackers as a sample of terrorists,
1) Khalid Almihdhar - Possible Saudi national

-Possible resident of San Diego, California, and New York

2) Majed Moqed - Possible Saudi national

3) Nawaf Alhazmi - Possible Saudi national

-Possible resident of Fort Lee, New Jersey; Wayne, New Jersey; San Diego, California

4) Salem Alhazmi - Possible Saudi national

-Possible resident of Fort Lee, New Jersey; Wayne, New Jersey

5) Hani Hanjour -

-Possible resident of Phoenix, Arizona, and San Diego, California

1) Satam M.A. Al Suqami- Possible Saudi national

Last known address: United Arab Emirates

2) Waleed M. Alshehri - Possible Saudi national

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Orlando, Florida; Daytona Beach, Florida

3) Wail M. Alshehri

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Newton, Massachusetts

4) Mohamed Atta - Possible Egyptian national

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida; Coral Springs, Florida; Hamburg, Germany

5) Abdulaziz Alomari - Possible Saudi national

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida

1) Marwan Al-Shehhi

-Date of birth used: May 9, 1978

-Possible residence(s): Hollywood, Florida

-Believed to be a pilot

-Alias: Marwan Yusif Muhammad Rashid Al-Shehi; Marwan Yusif Muhammad Rashid Lakrab Al-Shihhi; Abu Abdullah

notice any themes thereee???
weird neither do i!

also:
you havent said it formally but you are making arguments against Hussein whilst making arguments against the islamic faith, there is really NO TIE between the two,
unless i am mistaken, and i am 99.8787887% sure that im not,
saddam was a secularist,
he had as little respect for that religion as you do,
there are plenty of country's in the middle east who do have extreme ties with islam, but certainly not Iraq,

play nice.

1) Well, this would be a brilliant point if 9/11 was the only terror