Bush Approval Ratings Article

[Aaron]

This is a pretty good article if you haven't seen it yet. Compairs Bush's numbers to other ex-presidents.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/PollVault/story?id=1278080

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

If only it was that low this time last year. :(

I was shocked to see Nixon even made a minimum of 23% after what happened to him!

[revgoozen]

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
If only it was that low this time last year. :(

I was shocked to see Nixon even made a minimum of 23% after what happened to him!

a lot of people did, and still do think that nixon, with all of his faults, was one of the best presidents the country has ever seen. my father is one of them. people care a lot less about idealism than they like to think they do - proof of that lies in carters poor approval ratings. you would be hard pressed to find a more honest, more christian, more loving president in this countries history, and yet, most people who were of voting age during his presidency absolutely hated him.

[vordabois]

Originally posted by revgoozen
a lot of people did, and still do think that nixon, with all of his faults, was one of the best presidents the country has ever seen.

No.

The man was a damned criminal. He used the power of his office to shield others and ultimately himself from being uncovered doing things that broke the sacred trust of the voters in the very concept of their republican style of government.

Seriously, what more can a person do to destroy our ideals?

If he hadn't resigned, he would have been impeached and forcefully removed from office, let alone whatever criminal charges that would have been thrust in his direction had Ford not pardoned him.

I don't care what his policies were... His "faults" (as you call them) were much MUCH more than just "faults".

I agree with you about Carter, but not Nixon.

[revgoozen]

Originally posted by vordabois
No.

The man was a damned criminal. He used the power of his office to shield others and ultimately himself from being uncovered doing things that broke the sacred trust of the voters in the very concept of their republican style of government.

Seriously, what more can a person do to destroy our ideals?

If he hadn't resigned, he would have been impeached and forcefully removed from office, let alone whatever criminal charges that would have been thrust in his direction had Ford not pardoned him.

I don't care what his policies were... His "faults" (as you call them) were much MUCH more than just "faults".

I agree with you about Carter, but not Nixon.

are you expecting me to argue with you? if i was stating my opinion, i wouldn't have taken the time to say "a lot of people did and still do"...

to clarify, i think nixon was probably one of the 10 worst presidents of all time. jimmy carter, while not really effective, is one of my personal heros.

[Smith Comma John]

wow, it never occured to me just how much people liked kennedy.

[vordabois]

Originally posted by revgoozen
are you expecting me to argue with you? if i was stating my opinion, i wouldn't have taken the time to say "a lot of people did and still do"...

to clarify, i think nixon was probably one of the 10 worst presidents of all time. jimmy carter, while not really effective, is one of my personal heros.

Yeah, nah. Sorry. It just astounds me that anyone could EVER think he was anywhere near even average. I'm blown away just like Danny. I mean, what the hell? All I can think is that these people who think he was decent are basically those who never watch the news. Either that or they are people that, through some twisted partisan "logic", actually think he was the victim. :rolleyes:

Anyways, Carter is certainly totally underrated. But he has turned himself into one hell of a diplomat during and after his presidency. Unfortunately, a good bit of America seems to need someone who's ready and willing to be an asshole... Like there's gotta be some latent hostility in everything they do. It's like something that's in our blood, brought on by too many horrible John Wayne movies, WWF wrasslin, and tasteless beer.

He's got a book out recently, which I ran across today at work. Our Endangered Values: America's Moral Crisis (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0743284577/qid=1132038636/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-9789985-0545700?v=glance&s=books) I wasn't aware that the man's religious and political beliefs were so much like mine. I mean, reading the reviews (especially the one from the Washington Post), it looks as though he's pretty much dead-on.

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

I guess, criminal or not, people always respect strong people in power. Its a sheep mentality that isnt just in America but over here too.

So you put Nixon, (strong, determined criminal), against Carter (honest, decent but a bit wet), and I know who is gonna win. It really is pathetic.


On a side note, when is the baby due Derrick?

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Originally posted by flutter
wow, it never occured to me just how much people liked kennedy.
Dying young is an EXCELLENT career move. I doubt people would think highly of him if he was still alive, having affairs with models into his 50's.

[revgoozen]

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
I guess, criminal or not, people always respect strong people in power. Its a sheep mentality that isnt just in America but over here too.

So you put Nixon, (strong, determined criminal), against Carter (honest, decent but a bit wet), and I know who is gonna win. It really is pathetic.


On a side note, when is the baby due Derrick?



at the end of the day, i think that a lot of people liked nixon's policies... of course, upon closer inspection several of those popular policies were extremely flawed and morally inept. ditto jfk and lbj.

[ramblingrose]

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
Dying young is an EXCELLENT career move.
Only if you're famous surely? Don't do it Danny, it won't increase your earning potential or anything.

Do you think JFK would be so iconic if the whole thing hadn't been caught on film?

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Originally posted by ramblingrose
Only if you're famous surely? Don't do it Danny, it won't increase your earning potential or anything.

Do you think JFK would be so iconic if the whole thing hadn't been caught on film?
except Im not young! Well, Ok im younger then JFK was president, but still.

I think it would still be iconic, but obviously Zapruder adds another tasty layer of media

[ramblingrose]

It occured to me that I haven't got long if I want to pass away at the mythical rock and roll age, but since I don't really and it would just be a bit irrelevant I've decided not to bother. Do you think if Dubya died now he'd be remembered fondly?

[revgoozen]

Originally posted by ramblingrose
It occured to me that I haven't got long if I want to pass away at the mythical rock and roll age, but since I don't really and it would just be a bit irrelevant I've decided not to bother. Do you think if Dubya died now he'd be remembered fondly?

by some. he's more of a polarizing figure than JFK was - but in my personal opinion neither make very good presidents.

[DrHibbert]

I could be wrong, but from what I understand JFK was an extremely popular senator, and was very popular while he was alive. Of course, people didn't know about some of the things that went on. But I don't think just dying would make Bush very much more popular. There would still be books of his idiotic phrases and ideas.

[vordabois]

Originally posted by DrHibbert
I could be wrong, but from what I understand JFK was an extremely popular senator, and was very popular while he was alive.

Yeah, he was.

For the military folk who need a backbone in a leader, Kennedy stared down Kruschev, got the missiles out of Cuba. That was HUGE. It was the closest we came to nuclear war, and Kennedy proved he had balls of steel. :-p Beacuse it was such a dangerous time, a leader with extraordinary courage was exactly what we needed.

For the hippies and peaceniks, however, he created the Peace Corps, which was a nod to the idea that military might is not proper or effective in most circumstances.

For the minorities, he was the first to use the full power of the executive branch to enforce the judicial branch's rulings... Later, in 1963, he made a speech that eventually became the outline of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the most monumental piece of civil rights legislation in our country's history... Through his actions, Kennedy forced that branch to finally fall in line.

For the knee-jerk "patriots", Kennedy railed against communism in multiple speeches, including one in Berlin that the East Berliners cheered from the other side of the wall. He also assisted South Vietnam in repelling the communists (until LBJ let it all go, creating one fine mess).

For some of the more academic "patriots", he made the White House into a place where American ideals and accomplishments are to be celebrated. He invited countless famous people to gather there for dinner parties and public appearances.... His Administration invited dinner guests that included American Nobel Prize Winners, athletes, poets, artists, accomplished diplomats, etc.... The pride of our nation often congregated there, which elevated the prestige of the mansion into something kind of mythical.

For scientists and indeed mankind's dreamers through the eons who often looked at the moon in wonder, the man laid out our commitment to landing man on it, and before the end of the 1960s, with his will in mind, we did.

There are other things, but I think those are the main ones. But above all of them, Kennedy resembled Reagan in a certain respect... The man was a master in public speaking. Even if his policies were wrongheaded, he stated them in such a way that made them seem so incredibly genuine, and he connected with his audience like few others have.


"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, That we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and success of liberty."

"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard."


And the assassination... The times were unique. We were in the throes of the Cold War, and Kennedy, more than any other president, had the audacity to stare down the Soviets, to stare nuclear war right in the face, and force it to blink. No matter who you were, you had comfort knowing that such a determined man resided in the Oval Office and was leading our nation.

And then, in an instant, he was gone.



And about Bush... I don't think he'd ever be anything Kennedy-esque. First of all, the man is a moron. In one speech, he called his own branch (which the Constitution has identified as the EXECUTIVE branch) the "Administrative Branch". The man is much too retarded to be revered in history books. Only on Rush Limbaugh's talk show or FOX News is he elevated to the level he is.

As for a more concrete example, Kennedy ordered the already-prepared Bay of Pigs invasion. This was a plan laid out by his predecessor, and even though he did not prepare it, he accepted FULL RESPONSIBILITY for his signature on that order. Bush will never admit he made a mistake. He is incapable of doing so, as he has proven on multiple occasions.

[Smith Comma John]

Originally posted by vordabois
But above all of them, Kennedy resembled Reagan in a certain respect... The man was a master in public speaking. Even if his policies were wrongheaded, he stated them in such a way that made them seem so incredibly genuine, and he connected with his audience like few others have.

except for the fact that reagen had no clue what he was doing while he was in office.

[vordabois]

Originally posted by flutter
except for the fact that reagen had no clue what he was doing while he was in office.

Where I see Kennedy as a true visionary that honestly had the best intentions for our nation in mind and considered all angles from a principled point of view, Reagan was a total demagogue. His administration damaged our nation in ways we still deal with on a continual basis. For one, he was the anti-Kennedy in that he detatched the government from the people. While Kennedy trumpeted "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country", telling people that an active citizenry can and will change the government, Reagan created initiatives that elevated the rich, empowered the upper class, and accomplished it by riling up this retarded notion that the government is a burden that can't be controlled. Simpletons (who hate those damned taxes!! :-p ) just ate it up, and they still do.

[Smith Comma John]

Originally posted by vordabois
Where I see Kennedy as a true visionary that honestly had the best intentions for our nation in mind and considered all angles from a principled point of view, Reagan was a total demagogue. His administration damaged our nation in ways we still deal with on a continual basis. For one, he was the anti-Kennedy in that he detatched the government from the people. While Kennedy trumpeted "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country", telling people that an active citizenry can and will change the government, Reagan created initiatives that elevated the rich, empowered the upper class, and accomplished it by riling up this retarded notion that the government is a burden that can't be controlled. Simpletons (who hate those damned taxes!! :-p ) just ate it up, and they still do.

exactly. ordinary middle- and lower-class people don't seem to realize that all these "tax cuts" will only hurt them in the long run. heck, my family didn't even get a tax cut. bush and reagan are very similar in the fact that they ignore the growing income gap and the needs of the common man, yet the common man still loves them.

[vordabois]

Interesting little graph... Asked who people would most like to see in power after the next election cycle:

[revgoozen]

Originally posted by vordabois
Yeah, he was.
For the military folk who need a backbone in a leader, Kennedy stared down Kruschev, got the missiles out of Cuba. That was HUGE. It was the closest we came to nuclear war, and Kennedy proved he had balls of steel. :-p Beacuse it was such a dangerous time, a leader with extraordinary courage was exactly what we needed.

it was bad foriegn policy that allowed the cuban missile crisis to exist in the first place. kennedy was posturing and he put the entire country at risk to prove he had balls of steel. it was absolute luck that we did not end up in nuclear war over that stunt. that type of brinkmanship should not be admired, and would not be admired, had he failed. a good policy can be respected on principal, even in failure. carter's administration is full of those - jfk's is not.


Originally posted by vordabois

For the hippies and peaceniks, however, he created the Peace Corps, which was a nod to the idea that military might is not proper or effective in most circumstances.

yup, he created the peace corp. he also helped create an environment in which the vietnam war became possible.

Originally posted by vordabois

For the minorities, he was the first to use the full power of the executive branch to enforce the judicial branch's rulings... Later, in 1963, he made a speech that eventually became the outline of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the most monumental piece of civil rights legislation in our country's history... Through his actions, Kennedy forced that branch to finally fall in line.

he did what was pollitically expedient. his senate voting record illistrates this point fairly well. there is very little to suggest that jfk had any kind of heart fealt commitment to civil rights.

Originally posted by vordabois

For the knee-jerk "patriots", Kennedy railed against communism in multiple speeches, including one in Berlin that the East Berliners cheered from the other side of the wall. He also assisted South Vietnam in repelling the communists (until LBJ let it all go, creating one fine mess).

yeah, joe mccarthy was a family friend. kennedy never publically questioned mccarthy's actions, and was absent on the day that the senate censored him.

Originally posted by vordabois

For some of the more academic "patriots", he made the White House into a place where American ideals and accomplishments are to be celebrated. He invited countless famous people to gather there for dinner parties and public appearances.... His Administration invited dinner guests that included American Nobel Prize Winners, athletes, poets, artists, accomplished diplomats, etc.... The pride of our nation often congregated there, which elevated the prestige of the mansion into something kind of mythical.

these were publicity stunts
Originally posted by vordabois

For scientists and indeed mankind's dreamers through the eons who often looked at the moon in wonder, the man laid out our commitment to landing man on it, and before the end of the 1960s, with his will in mind, we did.

this i totally agree with.

basically, i don't think that jfk was a very good democrat or president in general. he was a lot like reagan in that respect.

[Kris Klam]

I hate it when people use approval ratings in an argument.

When Bush's approval rating is high people will say "oh, the majority of Americans are idiots," but when it's low they attempt to use them as some sort of intellectual guideline.

[DrHibbert]

Personally, I think the statistics are the way they are because (1) people are idiots; and (2) the idiots are starting to realize how idiotic they've been in the last few years.

[Kris Klam]

Originally posted by Bird Breath
Personally, I think the statistics are the way they are because (1) people are idiots; and (2) the idiots are starting to realize how idiotic they've been in the last few years.

I disagree.

I think that most of the people are focusing on present approval rather than overall approval. If Bush is doing something that is generally supproted then they are high, if not they are low. They're focusing on the "now," rather than if the approve or disapprove with what the presidency has done in the past or has initiative to do in the future.

I am by no means defending Bush, btw.

[DrHibbert]

I can see what you're saying. I mean, if the economy started doing great his ratings would skyrocket.

But I also think things are catching up with him and his party - 2000 dead soldiers, CIA/FBI screwing up intelligence pre-9/11, Bad intelligence on Iraq, CIA leak problem, Delay gets indicted, Economy going to shit, environment going to shit, Bush shitting on the environment some more, Bush's response when told a plane had flown into the trade center, Bin Laden still at large, more hostages in Iraq, Bush don't do proper talk, the whole world is starting to really hate us, the list goes on and on. And things start to add up and make people like him less, hence the lower approval ratings.

I'm not a fan of statistics, but I don't think approval ratings' fluctuations are all that bad a way of judging a president's popularity.

[Ciaran Finn]

Originally posted by ..i..
I hate it when people use approval ratings in an argument.

When Bush's approval rating is high people will say "oh, the majority of Americans are idiots," but when it's low they attempt to use them as some sort of intellectual guideline.

[vordabois]

Originally posted by ..i..
I think that most of the people are focusing on present approval rather than overall approval. If Bush is doing something that is generally supproted then they are high, if not they are low. They're focusing on the "now," rather than if the approve or disapprove with what the presidency has done in the past or has initiative to do in the future.

That's a whole other sort of poll called a "favorability rating".

Instead of the polling being based on raw approval ratings -- which are biased by circumstances at the time the survey was initiated -- they ask "Do you have an overall favorable opinion of Bush or an unfavorable one?"

If you really want to get into the heart of the matter...

http://www.pollingreport.com/BushFav.htm