Degrees

[ramblingrose]

I haven't got a degree and this gives me an inferiority complex. Which is stupid because there's some very good reasons why I haven't got one and none of them are to do with me not being clever enough to have one. And when I was at university I was continually dismayed by how stupid some of the lecturers were. Is there any reason to get a degree anymore other than to study something you're interested in and have three years of approved skiving?

[DrHibbert]

1. It helps you get jobs that pay better
2. You end up doing a lot of research on things that interest you. Papers, theses, theories, surveys, and other projects help develop a rounded knowledge that is difficult to get at home.
3. You meet other people who are interested in the same thing.
4. You meet people who can help you get jobs.
5. It's kind of fun if you like the subject. I didn't enjoy many if any classes in high school, but college is a lot different than high school.

I've known many people in college and grad school who start at 40+, some of them even in their 60s, and I think that's awesome. I knew a guy who had 6 degrees, and it wasn't so that he could showboat. These were tough ones, too, like physics and high levels of math.

[ramblingrose]

I can see how some of this is true, but all my friends have got degrees and most of them earn less than I do. Plus they are still paying off the debts they ran up, and most of them didn't do very much work or actually enjoy the academic side of university. It just seems like in this country at least, there are so many graduates it doesn't do you that much good unless you study something fairly specific.
Anyway, cartoon medical school is surely a riot (sex or otherwise)?

[DrHibbert]

Cartoon medical school? Eh?

Last I heard (about 3 years ago), the average college graduate made $19,000 more per year than the average high school graduate. That doesn't even count people who didn't graduate high school or people who go on to grad school, which would make the number even bigger. Not that money's the only thing in life, but I think it's been pretty well established that college graduates make a lot more money than non-graduates.

I know what you mean, though, about the mass numbers of people going to college. But to me that doesn't make it less valuable to go to college, it makes it more detrimental for those who don't. I can't imagine having a high school diploma and trying to get a good job without having connections.

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Originally posted by ramblingrose
Is there any reason to get a degree anymore other than to study something you're interested in and have three years of approved skiving?
No, not really. I very nearly didnt get my degree due to an administrative fuck up and I often wonder that myself.

The fact is, my degree hasnt made me any better off. I realised this to begin with, I really only did it for myself, not to help me. Too many people are accepted into uni these days (thanks to Thatcher), and so degrees are so commonplace they mean fuck all.

I know a girl who has a 1st from Cambridge yet works in a pizzeria. Go figure.

The only people who are concerned on this issue are those who dont have them. The grass is always greener after all.

[Jackal]

I quit, so don't have one. I think I would feel better in front of strangers, if I could at least mention that I had one.

I feel sorda like a failure for not learning all I should and could have.

My sister's the only person in my family that has a degree. Parent's and grandparents included.

I don't think you have to have a degree to make a decent living, and I also know people with degrees that don't even use them.

I was failing a class when I quit and was failing another on my second attempt to return, also they added more math, so there was just no way it was going to happen.

[Six Ways]

I think degrees can often help you out if they're not new-age mickey mouse bullshit. E.g. media studies. The ones where anyone can get it, e.g. media studies, don't really help you much later on since if you didn't have to work to get in, you probably wont be expected to work during.

[ramblingrose]

Originally posted by Six Ways
I think degrees can often help you out if they're not new-age mickey mouse bullshit. E.g. media studies. The ones where anyone can get it, e.g. media studies, don't really help you much later on since if you didn't have to work to get in, you probably wont be expected to work during.
I think there's some truth in that, I knew someone who did a course where pretty much all he had to do was watch television. I wasn't even doing a full degree but I had to work 30 hours a week and do about a million subjects. It's my own fault for being such a loser when I was 17 but it's still annoying.

[sleepy sinner]

Degrees can help for sure but here a Bachelor doesn't mean too much. You need at least BA plus Honours, BA plus Postgraduate study or BA plus work experience to get ahead in a big way.

I do like learning, some subjects are absolutely fantastic and can shape the direction you head in. Also, university environments are just kinda good places to hang. Coffee and cheap yummy food on every corner I love it. Uni's a snackfest. We also have a lot of awesome live bands play and stuff.

[Smith Comma John]

in this day and age, so many people are getting a college education that a bachelor's degree doesn't mean too much. a master's degree has almost become a standard, which is frustrating for people like me who lack the money and drive to attend school for that long.

[Six Ways]

Well surely if you lack the drive (maybe not the money, that may not be your fault) to attend school for that long then you have been weeded out by the system? Isn't that the point? No offense or anything.

[ramblingrose]

Yup, seems like a fair point...I could've done great things apparently but at the time I couldn't be arsed, and now I can't afford it. And I get stupider (see, that's not even a word) with each passing year.

[floatingdown]

i have a degree and it does diddly squat for me (but then, i am trying to work in the arts so its not surprising).

in any case, i would agree that a degree isn't indicitive of intelligence or a guarantee of obtaining a high paying/good job.

[Smith Comma John]

Originally posted by Six Ways
No offense or anything.

non taken.

[Smith Comma John]

i meant "none." damn i'm stupid!

[Herr Lipp]

Degrees dont equal fat cash.
Manual jobs also dont equal fat cash.
But it's possible for either type of job to create fat cash, you just have to choose the right field.


I'm not fussed about not going to Uni, because a) I'm cleverer than some of my friends that went b) I'm not willing to give up 3 years of my life just to write essays, seeing as there isn;t a subject I'm 100% interested in you can study at Uni and c)dont wanna get £20k in debt just so I can PRETEND I'm independent.

That's the thing man, students give it about having independence, but throwing yourself into debt isn;t being independent, it's relying ont eh banks and teh government being kind to you. Show me a student with no student loan or overdraft and then you will have an independent student.....or a spoiled coont.

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

You have a good point. Thats why you should do it for yourself like me. I dont regret it at all, I dont give a fuck about the debt. It was worth it.

[Herr Lipp]

Truthfully, I begrudge students a lil, because I'd've liked to have been one. But me and secondary/tertiary education don't get along. I'm too lazy. I think I only yearn for teh debauchery part anyway so it wouldve been stupid for me to go just for that and then drop out.

[sleepy sinner]

Really? Do students go on about being independent where you are? I definately get intellectual snobs here but mostly people don't try to pretend they're independent. The current economic era means that most students can't afford to move out of home and go to uni. So it's a bit stupid for anyone here to try and say they're independent when they're all living at home. We don't have that going away to college tradition.

I really respect people that put themselves through uni with their partial savings whilst also living out of home and having to deal with rent and everything, like many of my friends from rural areas have to. I can't do it financially, although I would like that sort of independence, it's a real feat. I think that is something to be proud of and in that context people could be proud to say uni meant they had achieved independence.

I don't have a debt but then I also don't try to pretend I'm independent. I guess I'm your semi-spoiled "coont".

[Herr Lipp]

Once again, I dont really think people are coonts if they're spoiled, I'm just jealous I suppose.

Not all students go on about it (you should know by now my whole life is based on generalisations) but a good portion of the students I've met, do. And they are Grade A dickheads lemme tell you. Very pretentious.

[Cool As Ice Cream]

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
Too many people are accepted into uni these days (thanks to Thatcher), and so degrees are so commonplace they mean fuck all. Isn't it a good thing that more people are accepted into university? It sounds like a good thing to me.

I mean, the fact that they are accepted (= given a chance) doesn't mean they're automatically getting a degree, right?

I don't see how making universities more open would decrease the value of a degree.
There might be other reasons for that though.

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Originally posted by Cool As Ice Cream
Isn't it a good thing that more people are accepted into university? It sounds like a good thing to me.

I mean, the fact that they are accepted (= given a chance) doesn't mean they're automatically getting a degree, right?

I don't see how making universities more open would decrease the value of a degree.
There might be other reasons for that though.
We used to have two levels. Universities and below them Polytechnics. To get into Uni (as opposed to to a Poly) was a lot harder and therefore the value was higher.

Others would still be "given a chance" by going to a Poly.

Now all Polys have been converted into Universities and its all become watered down and mongrelised. So the number of people with degrees increase, and therefore the value of it decreases.

In the old-fashioned sense, a degree is supposed to represent a certain level of achievement to show a future employer and put yourself ahead of your competitors (for a job), but when more people have them, the power of having one diminishes.

I think its great more people are getting them, but it is at a cost to everyone. The whole thing is so diluted now, added to the fact employers look for other things besides bits of paper.

I cant even be accused of being snobby about this as the Uni I went to was a former Poly.

Oh and by the way, Thatcher only changed them all to Unis so that she could remove state funding, privatise and make them fend and compete against each other.

[Herr Lipp]

My older cousin went to a Poly. She studied accounts. She's a chartered accountant now and earns some serious wedge. I think the old system was better.

[jean le nègre]

if i had a phd in classics they'd let me teach. but that would take another 4 years and i don't want to teach. degrees are nice. pretty paper. sometimes parchment even. but if they don't lead you where you want to go, why would you want them?

[Static Split Screen]

My mum puts so much emphasis on a degree. I want to go to college because I like learning about things that interest me, but I wanted a year off first to relax, work, and save up money, and she basically said she'd kick me out of the house if I did that. At least her BA's in art, so she's not forcing me to be a doctor or a lawyer. But I don't think once I have a degree I'll make very much money. I'll be a teacher or an interpreter, and hopefully one day an author.

[Destrokshon Boy]

well some quick comments based on what ive read.

my opinion might be a little biased because, at the risk of sounding pretentious, im studying engineering in imperial college, so ive pretty much got a kikass job assured when i graduate. the fact that ive got a degree in engineering irrespective of what uni has opened so many doors during my job hunt. the best companies, notably consulting engineering and finance, will not even bother considering you unless uve got a 2:1 from a top uni.

so yeah im MY experience the idea that id be better off without a degree is simply propesterous. ive my life set up thanks to that slip of paper.

second of all, the point of having opened the access of universities to more people is to have a better educated middle class. we are entering what is dubbed the knowledge era and an industrialised nation cannot afford [corrected: NOT] to have a highly skilled workforce. also, someone blamed this depreciation of degrees on thatcher. that sounds like a load of bollocks to me, because thatcher is conservative and coversatives usually are elitist and classist. yet opening up universities to the not so smart sounds like pretty leftist movement to me.


finally, if ur smart and hard working, u shouldnt worry about debt. a smart person will get into a good uni, which will get him/her a good job, and ultimately debt is no longer an issue. if, however, u are crap and study something useless in a crap uni then yeah u might want to reconsider getting a degree.

someone mentioned that she he knows a girl who had a first from cambridge. would u care to elaborate ? what did she study, what type of job did she want, what was the job market back then ? im curious

[Herr Lipp]

Originally posted by Destrokshon Boy
so yeah im MY experience the idea that id be better off without a degree is simply propesterous. ive my life set up thanks to that slip of paper.

you haven't got any experience to comment on, you fool. you're still a student :lol:

[Herr Lipp]

Originally posted by Destrokshon Boy
the best companies, notably consulting engineering and finance, will not even bother considering you unless uve got a 2:1 from a top uni.

you're pretty stupid for a pretentious student. let me just destroy the above sentence: You won;t get an interview for British Gas unless you have NVQ Level 4 in Plumbing or Heating Engineering. Your above statement makes no sense, only that you dont really have a clue what this thread is about :rolleyes:

a smart person will get into a good uni, which will get him/her a good job, and ultimately debt is no longer an issue.

are you for real, or a troll? are you just basing your posts on what you THINK will happen? What about the hundreds, maybe even thousands of students that can't get jobs, and can;t get remedial jobs because employers say they are over-qualified?

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Fraser, dont you remember the other thread?

He has already proven what an idiot he is there, so its no surprise to see him talk utter bullshit on this thread too.

Particularly carrying on his ignorance regarding Thatcher. She was extremely right-wing, which is why she wanted the uni's to all fend for themselves. And he claims denationalising is what "lefties" do! :lol: What a tool.

[Herr Lipp]

Good luck to whatever Engineering company ends up with him! For some reason his post just got my back up.

[ramblingrose]

Maybe he could bring about world peace, he got you two to agree on something.

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

It isnt the first time we have agreed. Check the smoking ban thread.

[Jackal]

I think Destrokshon Boy will finish uni, get a wonderful, high-paying job and then 7 years later blow his brains out at his desk because he hates his life.

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Originally posted by Jackal
I think Destrokshon Boy will finish uni, get a wonderful, high-paying job and then 7 years later blow his brains out at his desk because he hates his life.
Nothing like wishful thinking, but why wait 7 years?

[Jackal]

He's an optimistic fellow with dreams, so it may take a while before he gets worn down.

[ems]

Originally posted by Jackal
I think Destrokshon Boy will finish uni, get a wonderful, high-paying job and then 7 years later blow his brains out at his desk because he hates his life.


:lol:

[Destrokshon Boy]

Originally posted by Walter Sopchak
you haven't got any experience to comment on, you fool. you're still a student :lol:

i ve realized that if i ignore the thick layers of insults that coat your (plural you) posts, it IS possible to have a conversation here !

what u said isnt entirely stupid. well done !

based on what i wrote you couldnt have known this, but just to correct you i AM in a position of authority regarding the jobs issue.

first of all, i did a lot of reading, and it all points toward what i said before. "the best companies, notably consulting engineering and finance, will not even bother considering you unless uve got a 2:1 from a top uni. "

go to a careers office in ur uni, go to a presentatino by a company such as goldman sachs (starting salary: 40k £ per annum), read a book called TOP 100 EMPLOYERS ... do all the things i did, and then lets see you still wondering whether its worth getting a degree from a top uni or not.

what about experience ? have i got experience ?
well, ive been unnoficially offered a job by McKinsey for their Argentina office, and they tend to be quite picky. all the finance companies have accepted me for interviews, they ll probably make job offers as well. so yeah ive got experience.

[Destrokshon Boy]

Originally posted by Walter Sopchak
you're pretty stupid for a pretentious student. let me just destroy the above sentence: You won;t get an interview for British Gas unless you have NVQ Level 4 in Plumbing or Heating Engineering. Your above statement makes no sense, only that you dont really have a clue what this thread is about :rolleyes:

are you for real, or a troll? are you just basing your posts on what you THINK will happen? What about the hundreds, maybe even thousands of students that can't get jobs, and can;t get remedial jobs because employers say they are over-qualified?

ever realized that if u take away the insults, the " :rolleyes: " and the (clicheed and unsuccesful) use of irony, your posts end up much shorter ?

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT, PLUMBING ?!?! since when is THAT something difficult ? yes, you do need to have that certificate thingie to get a job with britsh gas (as a plumber, not CEO), but thats not something DIFFICULT TO GET , IS IT ? it doesnt even belong in the field of higher education !

lets take the inverse example : if u have a plumbing certificate, the ONLY job ud EVER get is as a plumber for british gas. now, there s nothing wrong with this, the world needs plumbers, i have nothing against plumbers, love the plumbers !

but ffs dont put them next to stockbrokers, engineers, scientists and the like.

[Destrokshon Boy]

Originally posted by Jackal
I think Destrokshon Boy will finish uni, get a wonderful, high-paying job and then 7 years later blow his brains out at his desk because he hates his life.

was that a compliment or a meanie ? a double edged sword ? a rose with thorns ?

if i stay in europe, this would probably happen, yes. but the degree was worth it...
learned a lot.

[Jackal]

Obviously a compliment.

[Spaced]

This thread is ridiculous. Do a degree with a vocational basis, and yes, it will help you to get a job in that vocation. Do a certiifcate with a vocational basis, and surprise, that too will help you get a job in the related vocation. Do some degree with no practical application outside of academia, then YES, it will prove to be largely useless in helping your employment opportunities!! There may still be something to be said for getting your foot in the door, and working your way up though a company, but this has always been the minority, and is becoming increasingly so. At any rate, what really matters is being good at whatever you do. Even the magical engineering degree means little if there are 100 other people with the same degree who do the work better than you do.