fiction writing class rant [Archive]

In Dust and Ashes

11-01-2005, 12:27 AM

this idiot old man in my fiction writing class is driving me insane and I want to beat him to hell with a giant book of all the short stories that are better than his. I think it would do wonders for his ego.

let me explain:
this dude is at least in his 40's. he's twice as old as the teacher and his a smirking little pompous brat that thinks he has obtained worlds of knowledge much greater than anyone else in the world.
every time he talks, it's so that he can share some crap about himself. he's constantly trying to over ride the teacher and lead conversations in class. he's very critical of other peoples work and never in a way that's very helpful or valid. he loves putting people down and he always does it with the same ugly toothed smirk that reeks of a conceding tone.

but that's not the point. the point is that I finally get the chance to read and critique one of his stories (supposed to be limited to 7 pages, his is 10.) and it's taken me an hour to get through the front page because of how much I'm having to mark through it.
his writing his horrible and it's so far past ironic that it's just annoying now. it's been well over 2 hours and I'm still trying to wade through page two of this dribble.
I want to be helpful about it, but I don't even think he's gonna care what I write about his work.

someone please tell me if this writing style is at all good or even acceptable:

Blown off a few years ago during hurricane Isabel, missing shingles on the steep front roof advertised the house's neglect, more absent shingle laps gaped on the gentler sloped to-windward back roof.

what kind of a friggin' sentence is that? it took me 4 times reading it through to even get what the subject of that monster is.
and that's how all his sentences are. the only reason this damned thing is 10 pages long is because every freakin' thought of his is worded with 18 needless words broken by commas that mark the backwards structure as if it's some sort of abstract art.
it hurts my head and I don't have what it takes to get through 8 more pages of this :(

oh and then to make it worse, this idiot puts a cursed disclosure on the end of his story stating that what the characters did with the treaured artifacts was wrong and in real life the correct way to deal with such things would be to blah blah blah blah blah.....and he goes into another paragraph long rant that's just there to show off what he knows about local law pertaining to such matters...

I've already devised a way to kill this man. all during class, that's all I think about when he talks. I want to slit his throat open with a pen. and I wont let him die from lack of oxygen or swallowing his own blood. no. I want him to die from ink poisoning through the main blood stream in his throat.

thank you for allowing me to rant.

Squirrel

11-01-2005, 04:04 AM

Oh, man. I hate it when people do that. Maybe tell him to read some George Orwell essays, isn't he always going on about economy of prose?

Anyway, what I was going to suggest is maybe you could mock him in your critique. Like instead of just saying "this is bad" or whatever, you could try to roll off reams of needless exposition, include every thought that pops into your head, deliberately meander off into little personal anecdotes, etc. Maybe try to get a four or five line sentence in there. And then be all like "I had one or two comments" and hand him like 5 pages of illegible hand-written notes, all in red pen. Ha ha.

In Dust and Ashes

11-01-2005, 04:24 AM

that would be hillarious, but it's already 4 in the morning and I still have an anatomy test to study for.....(I took a nap)

ok, so like theres this 6 line paragraph(three sentences) in here:

Lazily streaking across Back Sound, high sunlight danced on gentle wave tops; silver peaked riples drifted toward her from Middle Marshes, a sun glade glistening sea-foam green, quicksilver gray, cobalt and gold. Salt-spray hazed evergreen foliage on High Hill rose above the vanilla strand on the nearer horizon of the Banks. The view, all hers to wander, wild and vivid as the day first settlers gazed on the scene, except for her small outboard skiff bobbing on dimpled waves.

you can't read that and not be repulsed. not to mention the fact that
1) the first sentence is the third time this guy has made a list of descriptions ON THIS PAGE.
2) there is no active action here. it's so completely passive, I feel like I'm dead.
3) why? just...just why?
4) what the crap is with his two word descriptions of EVERY FRICKIN' OBJECT MENTIONED?
5) is it just me or do the dashes seem very unnecessary?

Cool As Ice Cream

11-01-2005, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by hambakmeritru
I've already devised a way to kill this man. all during class, that's all I think about when he talks. I want to slit his throat open with a pen. and I wont let him die from lack of oxygen or swallowing his own blood. no. I want him to die from ink poisoning through the main blood stream in his throat. just do it.

this guy is just horrible. jesus fucking christ. D: D: D:

KILL HIM NOW. :hate: don't forget to stab his eye out with a fork and to kick him in the back of his head. (just slitting his throat and waiting for him to die is a bit boring.)

In Dust and Ashes

11-01-2005, 06:14 AM

I finally got through the piece. it was torture and there was absolutely no action or plot until about page 4 or 5.
the entire thing was dripping with pretentious language and all his details were so insanely specific that it was as if he aimed it all for an elite audiance of boater folk (or just himself).
it got to the point where the details didn't add a thing to the story, but actually took away meaning and relevence of everything.

I worked up the guts to say it was pretentious in the notes I wrote on it. I wrote a seperate critique to pass into my teacher though because she asks that they be gentle and considerate to the persons feelings. heh.

I might rip out his teeth while I wait for him to die, only because they bother me a lot when he's sitting so conceded in his chair and smirking at everyone.
but really, I think the slow death will be nice. it'll give me time to enjoy it while it lasts and I want to see his blood run black in his heart.

speaking of which, I have to study for my anatomy test. theres nothing more confusing than trying to draw and lable a sacromere with the actin and myosin filiments, M line, Z disc, A band, H zone, and I band. :confused:

In Dust and Ashes

11-01-2005, 06:23 AM

....apparently the M line is in the H zone which is part of the A band between the I bands which contain the Z disc.....

How the hell am I supposed to memorize that??

Cool As Ice Cream

11-01-2005, 06:25 AM

Originally posted by hambakmeritru
....apparently the M line is in the H zone which is part of the A band between the I bands which contain the Z disc.....

How the hell am I supposed to memorize that?? make a drawing and then try to redraw it (without any help of course).

Cool As Ice Cream

11-01-2005, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by hambakmeritru
I want to see his blood run black in his heart. That's not how it works, honey.

I think you still have a lot of work to do for your anatomy class.

In Dust and Ashes

11-01-2005, 07:25 AM

if I pour enough ink in his viens, I can make it so.
DON'T DESTROY MY FANTACY IT'S THE ONLY WAY I CAN GET THROUGH HIS SPEACHES IN CLASS! :cry:

and yeah, anatomy is one of my favorite subjects, but I always do horrid in the class....
probably because it always has so much information packed in it and I still don't know how to study properly.

Cool As Ice Cream

11-01-2005, 07:30 AM

i told you: make a drawing and memorize that.

In Dust and Ashes

11-01-2005, 07:32 AM

I'm trying, but this many lines is screwing me up....
darn it, it's testing time. gotta go.

ramblingrose

11-01-2005, 10:11 AM

It is the law that every fiction writing class contain at least one of these idiots. There was one so bad in mine I had to drop out, the effort of not laughing at him (he once said, totally without irony, that he was proud of the "gypsy panache" he had managed to insert into his story, which incidentally was a pile of arse) or screaming "You're shit! You're shit!" every time he opened his mouth was giving me terrible headaches.
What happened? did he appreciate your comments?

In Dust and Ashes

11-01-2005, 11:44 AM

I said nothing all class period. the first story we went over was excellent. one of the best peices we've gone over so far. there was nothing really for me to say against it, so I just sat and enjoyed the discussion about it.

when we got to the idiots piece, I just watched his face the whole time while everyone talked. he sat and smirked and held his head real high while people said good things about it (we have to give it positive remarks before going into criticisms). sometimes I think he gets off on his own work and whatever good thing someone can conjur up to say about it.
and then when we said anything against it's content, he would smirk even bigger as if it gives him pleasure that he wrote something past our heads or whatever. and when he was finally given the chance to say anything in response, he went over and defined all the needless vocab that no one understood like "dit dot" and "mitten" or whatever that was. they were all terms that only people from his home town would know and he came right out and said that. it was like he was so proud to have written a piece that was so exclusive for his own town folk.

Jackal

11-01-2005, 11:58 AM

Kill him.

Cool As Ice Cream

11-01-2005, 12:10 PM

you could also egg him or sabotage his car.

In Dust and Ashes

11-01-2005, 12:18 PM

he needs to be put in his place and I think a good gang beating in the halls after class would work nicely for that.

after brooding over the situation a bit longer, I will finish the job with my long thought out murder.

Nak Nak

11-01-2005, 12:24 PM

He sounds like a huge ass. I would not be able to restrain myself from cutting him down to size.

In Dust and Ashes

11-01-2005, 12:45 PM

oh but how would you go about it.
that's the question.

ramblingrose

11-01-2005, 01:03 PM

Salt poisoning?

Cool As Ice Cream

11-01-2005, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by hambakmeritru
he needs to be put in his place and I think a good gang beating in the halls after class would work nicely for that. :lol:

Nak Nak

11-01-2005, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by hambakmeritru
oh but how would you go about it.
that's the question.

I'd just tell it like it is.

jean le nègre

11-01-2005, 06:16 PM

you could write better stories than him
and then watch him squirm when you get praise

Nak Nak

11-01-2005, 06:33 PM

Originally posted by jean le nègre
you could write better stories than him
and then watch him squirm when you get praise

you are
not a
po-et

jean le nègre

11-01-2005, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by Nak Nak
you are
not a
po-et

did i claim to be
a po-et ?

Squirrel

11-01-2005, 09:24 PM

You could write a story about someone who kills some pretentious jerk in their class.

In Dust and Ashes

11-01-2005, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by Nak Nak
you are
not a
po-et

dude.
the joke has passed.
not that it was ever funny in the first place.....

this board has a bad habit of beating a dead horse. it's really annoying.

In Dust and Ashes

11-01-2005, 09:47 PM

Originally posted by jean le nègre
you could write better stories than him
and then watch him squirm when you get praise

I already submitted my story and had it critiqued by the class.
I'd actually like to send it to you and get your personal critique on it. I'm not so thrilled about it, it was rather thrown together at the last minute and it's not my usual....anything....but I'd like to know what the problems are so I can improve myself.

jean le nègre

11-01-2005, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by hambakmeritru
I already submitted my story and had it critiqued by the class.
I'd actually like to send it to you and get your personal critique on it. I'm not so thrilled about it, it was rather thrown together at the last minute and it's not my usual....anything....but I'd like to know what the problems are so I can improve myself.

i'd be happy to look at it

Trickster

11-02-2005, 03:00 PM

why not post it so we can all read it?
then you can get some random views, it may help.

In Dust and Ashes

11-02-2005, 11:47 PM

I suppose I could....

just promise me you guys will be reasonable in your critiques. I don't expect anything nice, but I do expect supported and valid ideas.

Atomsk Iscariot

11-02-2005, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by hambakmeritru
just promise me you guys will be reasonable in your critiques. I don't expect anything nice, but I do expect supported and valid ideas. Promise.

In Dust and Ashes

11-03-2005, 12:04 AM

how am I gonna post this? it's like 5 or 6 pages long on Word (double spaced)

Atomsk Iscariot

11-03-2005, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by hambakmeritru
how am I gonna post this? it's like 5 or 6 pages long on Word (double spaced) MULTIPLE POST POWER!

In Dust and Ashes

11-03-2005, 12:11 AM

it's a beautiful thing

In Dust and Ashes

11-03-2005, 12:15 AM

ok first:
I hate the title. it was all I could come up with at the time.

the narration sucks, cus I was confused as to how I should do it and who was narrating.

I'm not used to handling more than 2 characters at a time. so this is a real overload.

I hate dialogue. I usually try to avoid it as much as possible because it never really gets anywhere and just turns into a ramble.

so in conclusion, this piece pretty much encompasses everything that I dispise.
not to say that anything else I've written is any better, but oh well.

In Dust and Ashes

11-03-2005, 12:16 AM

The Secret Take Over

“Cheer up Wes…and stop pointing that musket at me. You make me nervous.”
“Yeah, well there’s not much room for me to point it anywhere else, is there.”
“Why don’t you try pointing it up, like all the other sensible people on this ship?” Francis joined in on the conversation between Jerry and Wescott.
“Boat.” Wes said , “It’s a boat. Not a ship.”
“Shut up.” Said Barley, The first mate. “You guys are getting on my last nerves, and I know this piece of junk would do better without one of your fat butts on it.” He refused to turn around to look at them, so he just stared out at the endless ocean laid out to his side of the small red boat that carried all 5 pirates.
The captain was too lost in the black horizon to say anything to anyone. He just stared hard at any moving object in hopes that it would be land. His smile never faded and his heart stayed afloat better than the boat.
The crew grumbled themselves to sleep very uncomfortably in the bottom of the small boat. Wes held tightly to his musket and with the barrel in his left hook and his well fingered hand on the butt. His distrust and dislike for the rest of the crew had made him believe that they were gonna throw him overboard one night. Maybe it would be this night.

In Dust and Ashes

11-03-2005, 12:16 AM

“LAND!” cried the captain as the boat became beached by the waves. The moon was still up and the sun had several more hours to go before it rose.
Everyone scrambled to get off the tiny boat and see what land they had found. With a splash and a few girly screams, they each discovered which way was the right way to get exit.
“Sand!” Francis freaked, “I hate sand!”
“I’m hungry.”
“I’m thirsty.”
“How can you be thirsty? We’ve been surrounded by water for 6 years.”
“I don’t like salt water.”
Wes crawled on all fours through the sand hoping to find a place to sleep while the others complained about food and water. These dumb trips were always the same.
The Captain smiled brightly at his crew as they fought on this new land. It was a new adventure for them all and the captain was ready to take it all on.
Barley tried to make his way across the beach to find his own place to sleep, but his wooden leg sunk into the sand and got stuck. “Great.” he muttered to himself. Using both hands he tried to pull his leg out of the sand, but couldn’t manage. Francis and Jerry were still arguing over what they wanted and the captain had wondered off silently with a big grin on his face. The only person left to ask for help was Wes. “um…Wes….buddy…uh…could you help me out here? The sand has taken my leg.”
Wes rolled over sleepily to see Barley struggling to get free. With a smirk, he turned over again and fell asleep.

In Dust and Ashes

11-03-2005, 12:17 AM

The captain returned before the sun came up with a green apple and three giant, dead spiders for breakfast. Francis and Jerry were almost on top of each other sleeping while Wes had positioned himself far enough away that he couldn’t even hear them snoring. Barley, on the other hand, was laying sprawled on his back with his wooden leg still stuck upright in the sand.
With the same cheerful smile on his face, the captain began working on breakfast. There’s nothing like toasted spider legs on slices of green apple for a good morning’s breakfast.
After breakfast and digging Barley out of the sand, who was oddly sinking, the crew split up to discover what the island offered.
Wes wandered to the far end of the beach away from any of the others. He was starting to doze off under a short palm tree when he heard laughter coming from inside the forest. Normally he would have ignored it or tried to escape it, but this laughter was not from his crew whom he hoped he had lost for good. Out of curiosity, he got up to search out the source.
Following the sounds like a path, he made his way to a clearing with bones surrounding a small midday fire. Together, the bones made up 3 full skeletons; Once men, apparently. One of the three was completely taken apart with his head rolling across the sandy ground, laughing uncontrollably as it went. Another was laying flat on his back without any arms and with his head stuck in a barrel leaking a deep red wine. The other was laying down with his only connected arm holding a string of arms ending with a golden wine glass. He was trying to drink the wine using all six arms he had harvested from his friends. “Hey, hey look guys! You’re all helping me drink!” He laughed as the drink spilled all over his facial bones and onto the ground behind him.

In Dust and Ashes

11-03-2005, 12:17 AM

The skull laughed until he rolled into the fire. “Oh crap,” He said. “hey guys, can someone help me out here. I’d rather not get a blackened skull. Hey Marrow, can you just kick my skull out of the fire or something?”
Marrow sat up with his head still stuck in the barrel. The wine splashed out the bottom, but there wasn’t much left in it to loose. “Yo, Ivory, A little help here please. I can’t see a thing and I can’t get the barrel off my head without my arms.”
Ivory glanced over with a sober look and sighed as he sat up to start handing parts back. “You guys are pretty pathetic, you know that?” at this, he started laughing again, but contained himself well enough to kick the skull out of the flames and hand back a few arms.
“So what’s on tonight’s agenda?” Marrow asked after propping himself upright and grabbing a full glass of wine.
“How about putting me back together first?” the skull rolled towards its main body.
“I gave you your arms back. You can put yourself together, methinks.” Ivory stood himself on his head and waved his feet in the air.
Wes sat down in amusement and watched the strange cursed group interact with each other. He kept his musket ready in case of anything, but he felt no threat from the skeletons. In fact, after a short while, he got an idea. These guys seemed like just who he needed to help him with something. He took a breath and then stepped out into the clearing. He greeted the three of them and introduced himself quickly. He said he had a problem and needed the help of magically cursed things. The three gave him their attention and waited for him to explain what he wanted. “I hate my crew” he said, “and I want to kill them. We can take over their boat after they’re gone and sail wherever we want to—back to a city, even! We just need a plan.”
“Giant Guns!” Marrow was ready to join in on the fun.
“What? No! How are we gonna get Giant guns?” the others were all upset.
“Nerf Guns! It’ll be fun! We can blast them completely off the island with giant Nerf guns!”
“That’s stupid. We’ll lead them into a trap in the cave where the witch and the ninja live and they’ll kill them for us. That’s the right plan.” Ivory tried explaining the real plan to Marrow.
“No! Nerf guns would be better! It’d be a lot more fun! Look! I can even go get them for us! I know someone who has them!”

In Dust and Ashes

11-03-2005, 12:18 AM

********
“I’m getting bored with this, Michael. Why can’t we go play with your Nerf guns?”
“What are you talking about? We just got to the good part! These skeleton guys are cool!”
“But we’re not getting anywhere with this and I want to go do something else.”
Michael let out an exasperated sigh and got up from where he sat in his front lawn, his Legos spread out between him and his best friend, Greg. It always happened that Greg got sick of playing with the toys that Michael loved the most, just when Michael was planning something great to happen. They would go play with his extensive Nerf collection for maybe half an hour before Greg got sick of that too. And then Greg would complain about how he’s sick of playing at all and wants to go home. Sometimes it was hard for Michael to understand why they were such good friends, but when the next school day would come around, they’d be right back to being best of buds. That’s just how 4th grade friendships are, it seems.
Together the two boys picked up all the Legos and took them inside to Michael’s room. Michael looked at the three skeleton Legos. They were his favorite. In his mind, they had the best characters and were always doing goofy things. One day he’d complete a whole story line with his Legos and those three guys would be the stars. Maybe one day he’d even write a story, a novel, about the three drunken cursed skeletons that wandered around causing problems for all pirates. But right now, Greg was waiting with his favorite Nerf gun picked out.

In Dust and Ashes

11-03-2005, 12:18 AM

the end.

wow. that really wasn't so long....hmm...

In Dust and Ashes

11-04-2005, 12:18 AM

oh fine, so I go through all that trouble and now no one is gonna say anything about it...

I'm not afraid to have it torn to shreds.

Barbarian Love Elephant

11-04-2005, 12:29 PM

Jacki I never realised you haboured such volient thoughts. I feel for you you always end up with one of those fucks in every class everywhere

In Dust and Ashes

11-04-2005, 12:50 PM

yeah and every once in a while they're the teacher. :(

Jackal

11-04-2005, 02:08 PM

It was confusing. First I was thinking that the pirate's or soldier's were wimpy and that the language they used was not right.

Then, the moving skeleton's were there and Wes wasn't freaking out. And so I had alot of questions there.

Then Nerf gun's came into the equation and I realized they were just kids.

Alot is happening in this story, so I would suggest it be longer. It seems rushed and crammed.
And remember to use all 5 senses to describe things to bring the reader in.

I think the front should have me totally believing they are pirate's, so the twist work's better.

Good idea though.

In Dust and Ashes

11-04-2005, 05:27 PM

the thing is, if the narrator is a kid and he's playing with legos, not all senses are gonna come into play. at least not for the pirates.
I was trying to figure that out earlier when my class wanted more sensory. it just doesn't seem fitting for the toys.

a certain amount of confusion is what I was going for. I think the main part that needs work as far as straightening out unnecessary confusion is the skeleton scene. I wrote that seperate from the rest of the piece and fit it in oddly, so that's probably why it's off.

my class believes differently from you as far as what should be believable. most everyone in my class wanted more hints all the way through that the pirates werent real. I tried to throw some in, like the 6 years on the ocean bit and the apples and spiders. the language, I was told, should be equal to that of a 4th grader. which is actually kind'a hard to do....

ramblingrose

11-05-2005, 08:44 AM

I liked it (apart from where the kids came in at the end). I liked the wimpy pirates! I think that Jackal's crits are valid but for my tastes I'd want you to leave 'em wimpy! I did get a bit confused with the skeletons though. I'm sorry, I was drinking cocktails last night and my brain isn't working properly.

Jackal

11-05-2005, 09:44 AM

I figured out that she was giving hints that they were kids, after I finished the story. But I guess I thought she was trying to make the reader think they were real pirates at first, then later spring it on us that they were only kids.

But if it's just a story about kids' playing I would like there to be more hints that they are kids.

In Dust and Ashes

11-05-2005, 11:57 AM

I think your right. as long as their not overbaring and too obvious. I don't want the reader expect the ending before I get there.

In Dust and Ashes

11-05-2005, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by ramblingrose
I liked it (apart from where the kids came in at the end). I liked the wimpy pirates! I think that Jackal's crits are valid but for my tastes I'd want you to leave 'em wimpy! I did get a bit confused with the skeletons though. I'm sorry, I was drinking cocktails last night and my brain isn't working properly.

nah, the skeleton scene confused a lot of people. I'm gonna have to rework that one. mos' def'.

In Dust and Ashes

11-05-2005, 02:13 PM

just a question.
did anyone pick up on the captain always smiling? I think in my class only like 2 people caught that. maybe three. I mentioned it at least 3 times. I feel that if I put it in more, it'll become too overbaring. but I wanted that clue in there because it gives a sense of the lego faces which you pretty much can only visualize after finding out they're legos.

...if that makes sense....

Jackal

11-05-2005, 07:00 PM

Sorry, I didn't notice. A hundred years ago I took several creative writing classes. It seems like another life I use to have. I miss that person.

Trickster

11-06-2005, 04:35 PM

I liked the idea, but I felt there were too many characters for the reader to have to visualise in such a short piece. It becomes confusing as to how many people are in the crew and why they're there at all. If there were only two people in the boat at the start would this make any difference to the main crux of the story? I don't think it would at all. And it would also be two toys for the two boys, so each was representing himself by playing with a figure.

I actually quite liked the skeleton scene, and it makes more sense once you remember how a lego figures arms pop off so easily. I also liked imagining the captain's constant smile and far-away look, exactly like a lego figure. However I disagree with saying it should be written in the style of a child - just because a story features children doesn't warrant a lower standard of language - unless your readers are children as well. I personally don't like the inclusion of the "Nerf guns" thing, not the idea istelf, but the specific item you're using. Firstly because it's a trade name, and I think they should be left out where possible in writing, and secondly because it seems very period specific - I remember friends having Nerf guns when I was younger (I wasn't allowed them) but I've never seen them since - either in TV adverts or in shops. Basically I think another alternative outlandish activity could be suggested, which would at first seem ridiculous, but then more obvious when the reader is made aware of the situation. This would also work well if the reader is completely unaware that the whole scene is just children playing, then the suggestion of the activity would provide the first and most brutal crack in the illusion.

Anyway, I'm gonna stop ranting on now, i'd like to think some of what I've said might actually be helpful though. :)

Trickster

11-06-2005, 04:39 PM

Just out of interest, how old are you? And are the rest of your class the same age group?

The subject of the story strikes me as one that a young person would choose. I haven't thought about playing with toys for a long time now, so it seems quite immature. I don't mean that to sound negative or anything, i'm just wondering.

In Dust and Ashes

11-06-2005, 06:55 PM

I'm nineteen. sophmore in college. most of the class is my age, save two--the idiot who is the cause of this thread and one other older lady, probably in her 50s. she's nice though, I have no beef with her.

personally, I still like legos. I'm quite attached to my very small collection of pirate legos and I know one other guy my age who loves them. when I wrote this story, I was playing with my legos infront of my computer trying to come up with ideas for a story to write that was due the next day. haha.

I highly agree that it's too many characters. its too many to write about, so I'm sure it's too many to read about. I just had that many pirates, so I made that many characters. if I shortend it down to two, I'd have to rework why they're there and....I guess wes is just looking to kill one guy instead of four? I dont' know...I'll have to think about how I can make that more believable.

well if it's not a child narrating, then who is narrating? some unknown observer? it would make it seem like a documentary or something. I think the childish narration makes it more close and less ridged.
nerf guns are another thing from my childhood. my friends and I used to have big nerf wars. I didn't own any, but I had friends who collected them.
Nerf is still around....I watch cartoon network too much to not know that :-o
they're not that big anymore, but they still have some stuff. kind'a different than the traditional.
I have no problem with fixing a time on this though. legos arn't that big today either. especially not pirate legos. Pirate legos have become collectables. they don't make them anymore. I was shoping in Toys R Us the other day, the only legos around were star wars, dinosaur catchers, Viking, city legos (I swear they will never die), ...and I think that's it... in the lego magazine, they still have some lingering knights castle legos, but I can't find those anywhere else.

two issues that were brought with my classmates:

the witch and the ninja. they were so breifly mentioned that i don't think anyone really caught on and when someone did, it was just in really brief confusion before they moved on and stoped caring. what should I do with that? drop it? or bring it in more? (my witch and ninja legos were the only other ones around that I was playing with at the time)

should there be another major "crack" in the story before I switch to the children? it does seem a little abrupt there at the end.

Trickster

11-06-2005, 08:10 PM

That's something I forgot actually, the witch and the ninja.
When I read that bit I totally thought of the current faux-fascination of ninjas and pirates. (see realultimatepower.net and http://maddox.xmission.com/ respectively.) Because of that line I kinda fell out of the story somewhat, it just felt like a joke that one of my friends might make, they aren't needed really... you know? And you certainly don't need to bring any more characters into the story. Instead of them the skeletons could suggest what might seem to be nasty ways of killing someone to a 4th grader?

Two people in the boat might work out better, firstly for the reason I mentioned before, and secondly because you'd be forced to further develop the relationship between them with the short amount of space you have. Perhaps they have some sort of argument which causes them to split up and then Wes wants him dead? Or perhaps they don't fall out at all but split up to explore the island and then the skeletons help them rather than try to kill one of them? They suggest another method of transport to escape which then turns out to be the alternate activity. (To clarify: the skeletons suggest excaping by bike, because the second kid in real life (Greg?) wants to play with their bikes? Something like that, you know?)

There isn't really anybody narrating it at all, is there? You didn't write it in first person, so the language should be your own, except where the figures are talking, in which case they would say what the boys in the story make them say, so only then would the language be immature.

Another more subtle crack could come earlier on, something that would describe the lego figures, like the yellow skin, or the fact that their bodies are tough plastic... or maybe something to do with the environment they find themselves in? The island has no sand at all, since they are playing on the grass? A comment that apples don't normally grow on desert islands? I like the subtle idea of the captains smile though, that doesn't need to be made any more obvious.

A couple other things I noticed when re-reading it:

the words "last nerves" bug me, surely it would be just "getting on my nerves" or "losing my last ounce of temper", you know something like that?

pirates who don't know the sea is salty and undrinkable?! also in this part one of them mentions travelling for 6 years, and yet later the voyage is described as a "dumb trip". the language didn't seem right there - to say "he hated these dumb trips" suggests they had lots of them, and they didn't last long... quite the opposite to 6 years at sea!

Feel free to disregard anything I say by the way, I'm just giving my honest opinion as a reader. :)

In Dust and Ashes

11-06-2005, 08:42 PM

Originally posted by Richard Fish
pirates who don't know the sea is salty and undrinkable?! also in this part one of them mentions travelling for 6 years, and yet later the voyage is described as a "dumb trip". the language didn't seem right there - to say "he hated these dumb trips" suggests they had lots of them, and they didn't last long... quite the opposite to 6 years at sea!

I'll address this first.

those were all supposed to be hints that the pirate story was childish or not real. I think 4th graders would either not know that that's unrealistic, or not care and go with it for dramatic effect in their playtime. the language is definately something my friends would have used in such a case at that age.
I was trying to suggest with those lines that they kind'a have a typical life as pirates, from the view point of a child. when I was young, I made a pirate club with my friends. (I really loved pirates back then...still do, but oh well) back then we thought all pirates did was sail and explore.
the pirates of this story, in my mind, basicly just sailed from island to island doing this sort of thing. hense the captains excitement for another island adventure, and the pirates familiartiy with the idea of landing on an unknown place.
I guess I could make it more clear.
hmm I didn't notice how much detailing I left out.

oh, while I"m thinking about it, another really subtle hint about the legos, was the red boat. does anyone remember the red boats of the pirate legos? they were so odd. who would think to make them red? but thats all I had. I never had a pirate ship, I just had a red boat for my crew....
they were poor pirates :(

******
I have no idea what you're talking about with the ninja thing. I guess I'll have to change that. I don't want people reading wrong things into it...

I'll work on the character thing. I like the killing idea. it works better for me. I'm more of a "let's kill them all" kind of person. but I'll see what pans out.

I'm a firm believer in narration. even in the omnicant third person, getting the "voice" right is key to having a flowing story. it's something I've never been able to get right and it's something that all my teachers, critiquers have yelled at me for.
in this story especially, the narration gets screwed up.
I go from the whole crew, to the captian, to wes, to the skeletons, to the boy Micheal. and each change has an awkward switch in point of view and narration.
one day, I will master this art.....
one day....

In Dust and Ashes

11-06-2005, 08:45 PM

by the way, thanks for discussing this with me.

Osceana

11-07-2005, 06:52 PM

Jackie, i liked it a lot. :D It made me smile more than once. I think that you managed to perfectly capture the innocence and capriciousness of being a kid. It was very nicely written.

I wouldn't worry too much about suggestions that you should lengthen it. That would be useless and unneccessary, not to mention dishonest. If you made it longer you would be no different from that idiot in your class.

And as for that guy, i wouldn't worry too much about him. Anyone covinced of their grandeur to a fault will eventually be led to the truth in a very painfully sobering way.

I didn't go to school because i knew i didn't need to, i knew i'd be successful without it and since i knew that, i didn't need that kind of validation (that's just me, other people have more valid reasons for going to school and i commend them). But it sounds to me like this guy is only going to school so he can validate himself. That's really sad. But don't let it bother you too much. When he gets out in the real world he'll realize not everyone is quick to buy his shit.

Next time send me his assignment and i'll critique it for you. I'll tear it to shreds. He'll drop out of class. ;)

Take care Jackie-pants.

In Dust and Ashes

11-07-2005, 07:58 PM

wow. I haven't been called Jacki-pants since I stopped living at home.

Trickster

11-09-2005, 01:55 PM

so does one member of your class mark it or do you read it out and then they make comments?

what did they say to it?

In Dust and Ashes

11-09-2005, 03:10 PM

I pass out a copy to everyone in my class, they read it over and the next class time we discuss it.

overall, my class liked it. they got confused at some points which I could clear up, and they all noted the awful inconsistancy of the narration, which I really need to work on....narration is always the hardest thing for me....
but yeah, they liked it enough.

for the final, I have a choice of completely revising this one to a large extent, or writing a whole new one. I don't know which I'm gonna do. the story that I originaly wanted to do, is turning out to be a big pain in the butt, and I havn't gotten it figured out enough to start writing it, so.....

Trickster

11-09-2005, 05:38 PM

personally, i would go with starting a new one.

i always do that when writing songs or whatever as well, you can take what you've learned from previous attempts, and its gonna work out better than just trying to improve on something that you have to keep within certain constraints.

Jackal

11-10-2005, 03:29 PM

I would fix that one, because you know what to fix already.

In Dust and Ashes

11-10-2005, 06:06 PM

well I'll definately fix it eventually for public or private.

but let's put it this way, if i redo this one, it'll have to be a pretty big overhal to make an impression on my teacher.

if I do an all new one, I have the chance to do splendid or horrific. depending on how it turns out....

Trickster

11-10-2005, 10:02 PM

fuck it, go for the bigger risk - double or quits! :yar:

sleepy sinner

11-18-2005, 02:20 AM

I remember my best friend telling me once she had to sit through a whole lecture where this Asian writer guy came in to talk about his work and he didn't have a name, becaused he'd changed his name to the symbol pi, which was supposed to represent the harmony between his Asian and Australian personalities or something. She nearly died trying to hold her laughter in.

I did a creative writing class in first year so I know the pain dear. My own dear lecturer has had his ruminations on the sewerage drain by the freeway published and lauded.

One great thing though was in our class we had a mature age student who was in his late seventies I think. But he was a riot! He had so much life experience and such a sense of humour, which made him just such a clever and entertaining writer. It's just a pity he only really picked it up at that age because I reckon he could have made a great career out of his skill.