What's a Dogme film?

[Mr. Felix]

i was looking around in the imdb and i noticed something called "dogme" films in denmark and i can't figure out what they are. so... what are they?

[motorcyclemptiness]

Basically, a group of directors, filmmakers, blah blah, decided to like, make the rules of what is pure filmmaking. Something like that, anyway, it's really pretentious.

Lars Von Trier is probably the most recognized from that school.

[Kinbote]

Originally posted by Brazil
what are they?

Utter bullshit, to put it somewhat more succinctly than Rhonda.

[Mr. Felix]

well, i can't really trust your opinion.

[Kinbote]

Ditto.

[Mr. Felix]

Originally posted by UncleLester
Ditto.

finally we agree on something!

[Reginald I. Perrin]

http://www.dogme95.dk/the_vow/vow.html

Perhaps the oddest thing about "Dogme" is that, while Thomas Vinterberg and Lars Von Trier started up the whole thing, they only ever did 1 film each that could be called a "Dogme-film" ("Celebration" and "The Idiots"). I believe that Lars added an 11th rule - "The rules are made to be broken".

[Kinbote]

Imposing rules on a creative process means you're weak-minded, weak-willed, and a bad artist.

[Mr. Felix]

agreed, again.

[Eye]

I seem to remember hearing about a Hollywood film that sounded an awful like how 'The Celebration' was (I saw in an intro film class). I think the film was called 'The Anniversary' or something like that, a similar title to the Dogme film. Yeah I don't see anything really groundbreaking or pure about this mode of filmmaking either.

Oh wait, here is the film I was thinking of:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0254099/
But now that I read the plot outline it doesn't sound much like it, although I could have sworn are read a description of that was like Celebration in some fashion.

[aria]

Originally posted by motorcyclemptiness
Basically, a group of directors, filmmakers, blah blah, decided to like, make the rules of what is pure filmmaking. Something like that, anyway, it's really pretentious.

Lars Von Trier is probably the most recognized from that school.

actually, no, he's not.

and you accusing something of being pretentious brings to mind the words of the immortal kettle to the pot

"Italian for beginners" is a dogme-sque film that I enjoyed.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0243862/

[motorcyclemptiness]

I can't agree with you that I am at all pretentious.

Go pick on Ted.

[Squirrel]

Ha ha. When I first read the title of this thread, the thing that immediately popped into my head was "pretetious bullshit." But for some reason I didn't think many other people would feel the same way. But then I read the thread and laughed.

Also, that rule about putting two seconds of black between each cut - is that just for documentaries, or all dogme films? Either way, I really hate that.

Also I know it's not a dogme film, but I really hated "Elephant" too. :ok:

[Kinbote]

Originally posted by motorcyclemptiness


Go pick on Ted.

HEY. You're confusing pretentiousness with arrogance, madam.

[motorcyclemptiness]

Duly noted.

[Kinbote]

I like your new avatar.

[Mr. Felix]

Originally posted by UncleLester
HEY. You're confusing pretentiousness with arrogance, madam.

i believe that you're both.

[Tom Waits' Hat]

Originally posted by UncleLester
Imposing rules on a creative process means you're weak-minded, weak-willed, and a bad artist.

I'll have to disagree with you on this one Lester. While imposing retrictions on others can be unfair it is a good stimulus for creativity. Self-restraint in paricular helps to exercise unused muscles rather than overutilizing strengths. Remember what Bansky says of modern art, "never in the field of human history has SO MUCH been used by SO MANY to say so little." Although, Dogme may have been a gimmick it is in a sense a purist reaction to novelty in art. There is nothing new about Dogme. Is it pretentious? You know what - I don't care. I stopped caring whether artists were pretentious or not a long time ago. And that coincided with the time when I finally felt really free to enjoy art. And all in all I can't say The Celebration was any thing other than a really stirrning and touching movie.

[Kinbote]

It doesn't help matters that I think minimalism, of any stripe, a fundamentally disgusting notion.

[Tom Waits' Hat]

by the volume and severity of the adjectives you use to express disapproval it seemed obvious. Perhaps you should get re-acquainted with the fundamentals a bit more. You'll see they really can't hurt.

[Kinbote]

Sorry, I like talent and invention.

[British_Rockstar]

Originally posted by UncleLester
Sorry, I like talent and invention.

I think the argument here is

between:
A) Leonardo chiseling the pieta out of a rock with a chisel.

vs.

B) Rick Wakeman staging his album The Myths and Legends of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table on ice. Wearing the pointy hat.



And bathing in curry.

[Kinbote]

I have no idea what you just said, but I seem to like in general what you say, so I'm going to approve. Gob less!

[Telegram Sam]

THE BEST DOGMA FILM IS ERASERHEAD OR POSSIBLY THE IMPOSSIBLE LOVES OF THE BELOVED LOVER: AMELIE POUTINE

[Telegram Sam]

Originally posted by UncleLester
Sorry, I like talent and invention.

his black-and-white avatar is more artistic than yours. ERGO bow down to your master, Lester.

[Mr. Felix]

I like Tom Waits. And I'm angry.

[Kinbote]

Originally posted by Nathan Barley
his black-and-white avatar is more artistic than yours. ERGO bow down to your master, Lester.

I was hoping nobody would notice!

[L'egoMan]

Originally posted by UncleLester
Imposing rules on a creative process means you're weak-minded, weak-willed, and a bad artist.

you sir, are an idiot.

[L'egoMan]

Brazil, my young protegé, why didn't you ask me about what dogme films are instead of the fools here on the film board? The narrow mindedness of Uncle Lester astonishes me. This person seems to know nothing about the subject, yet still he has something to say!

Let us read what Uncle Lester has to say:

Originally posted by UncleLester:
Imposing rules on a creative process means you're weak-minded, weak-willed, and a bad artist.

Now, let me scholar you Uncle Lester. The very reason these Danish directors made the Dogme 95 rules, were to be more creative and make better art, not the other way around. I myself am not a fan of the exact rules of Dogme 95 (how the hell can I afford to film everything with 35mm!), but I do like the idea of imposing restrictions when making art. The most obvious reason for making rules, is that you can eliminate the possibilities of taking short cuts and make cliches. Another reason is that dogma's do not restrict your creativity, they challenge you and forces the artist to be even more creative! Anyone who thinks restriction is for the weak minded is a fool and probably very inexperienced when it comes to actually making art. (You have probably never seen a MacGyver episode either.)

[Kinbote]

Good art stems from unrestrained invention coupled with mastery of technique. Nobody - save for philistine Mongoloids, I suppose - needs "rules" to avoid cliches. Dogme is herd-mentality, absurd, middlebrow.

You're a dipshit.

[Atomsk Iscariot]

Originally posted by UncleLester
Nobody - save for philistine Mongoloids, I suppose - needs "rules" to avoid cliches. In fact, "rules," if anything, CREATE cliches.

[Kinbote]

Originally posted by Atomsk Iscariot
In fact, "rules," if anything, CREATE cliches.

http://www.blamonet.com/vb/images/icons/icon14.gif

[British_Rockstar]

Originally posted by Legogirl
I myself am not a fan of the exact rules of Dogme 95 (how the hell can I afford to film everything with 35mm!), but I do like the idea of imposing restrictions when making art.

This is, of course, the hardest rule to abide by. It destroys any thought that Dogme was created to give filmmakers an avenue for making cheap cinema. Every film grad and his half-brother wants to make a Dogme film using a $500 digital camera.

[L'egoMan]

Originally posted by UncleLester
Good art stems from unrestrained invention coupled with mastery of technique. Nobody - save for philistine Mongoloids, I suppose - needs "rules" to avoid cliches. Dogme is herd-mentality, absurd, middlebrow.

You're a dipshit.

I'm glad you know what good art stems from Uncle Lester.

Don't you see that the herd mentality in the film industry is what the Dogme 95 was an answer to? I do agree that it's pointless to go on making movies by the Dogme 95 rules today, but it's NOT pointless to make films by other rules! Look at 'Dogville' and 'Manderlay'! I presume you have seen the Celebration. This film is one of the most successful Dogme films and in my eyes an extremely good film. It is not bad art, it is not made by a weak minded artist, it proves that you are wrong.

And when it comes to making films by rules, I am sure the film 'Five Obsticles' would intruige anyone who is seriously interested in film. Go on, check it out.

I may be a dipshit in most aspects of life, but I like to believe that I am not when it comes to film.

Originally posted by Atomsk Iscariot
In fact, "rules," if anything, CREATE cliches.

Indeed! In the long run rules will be a restrain for any artist! But remember, if you get the three colours, red, blue, yellow and are asked to paint a picture, I hope you're not stupid enough to not understand that it's possible to mix them and create any colour you need. The Dogme rules were not in anyway a new way of thinking in artist communitites. For example: Yoko Ono has made a book of instructions or rules if you may, and Brian Eno have made use of simple rules to create art for a long time. ( see: http://music.hyperreal.org/artists/brian_eno/oblique/oblique.html )

I don't know what kind of background you two have when it comes to art, seems like none because of your resolute anxiety for making art (which I presume you don't make) by rules. Your narrowmindedness and lack of interest in seeing things from another angle then your own sickens me.

[Jackal]

I think giving myself rules on occasion can inspire me to be more creative to paint things I normally wouldn't have.

I can sit down and paint something and it can end up being unspecific, and not convey the thoughts I wanted too.

But if I make rules like, only use three colors, no lines that connect, no strokes longer than 3 inches, only use 2 brush sizes, and it must give the feeling of emptyness. Then my mind will have to think differently.

I'm sure it's the same with film. Working within a structured enviroment doesn't make you less creative.

[L'egoMan]

Originally posted by Jackal
I think giving myself rules on occasion can inspire me to be more creative to paint things I normally wouldn't have.

I can sit down and paint something and it can end up being unspecific, and not convey the thoughts I wanted too.

But if I make rules like, only use three colors, no lines that connect, no strokes longer than 3 inches, only use 2 brush sizes, and it must give the feeling of emptyness. Then my mind will have to think differently.

I'm sure it's the same with film. Working within a structured enviroment doesn't make you less creative.

[Mr. Felix]

Originally posted by UncleLester
You're a dipshit.

don't you ever say that!

darling niknik, i agree with you 100%. and im in love with you a little bit.

[L'egoMan]

Originally posted by Brazil
don't you ever say that!

darling niknik, i agree with you 100%. and im in love with you a little bit.

I am delighted.

[Mr. Felix]

and im delighting myself.

[British_Rockstar]

Dear niknakpaddywakk,

I think your signature sums it all up. Either unbridled excess can lead to a mess or a delightful madness. It is all a matter of taste. The idea of Corgan and Iha doing something like that would interest me. Repeated listenings may bore me. Isn't that the way with a lot of good art? Not GREAT (pedestal and all) but good. The kind that makes you think for a while afterwards.