Wurtzel and her 'books' [Archive]

More Cowbell

08-08-2005, 11:47 PM

I found this while browsing through the Elliott Smith forum. Some foreign chick doesn't get Wurtzel and has a bad impression of American women due to it. What do youm think?

http://www.blamonet.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72565

Kinbote

08-08-2005, 11:53 PM

I think Wurtzel is a despicable bitch. A bad writer, and a moron.

Confession: while a senior in high school and a freshman in college I would examine her books in public places, so girls of a certain sensibility - attractive to me at that time - would think me sympathetic and sensitive and feminist.

Further confession: as much as I hate her, I do think Wurtzel is gorgeous. Or at least was. I'm not sure what she looks like now.

Atomsk Iscariot

08-08-2005, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by UncleLester
I think Wurtzel is a despicable bitch. A bad writer, and a moron. Absolute, 100% accurate TRUTH there.

More Cowbell

08-09-2005, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by UncleLester
I think Wurtzel is a despicable bitch. A bad writer, and a moron.

Confession: while a senior in high school and a freshman in college I would examine her books in public places, so girls of a certain sensibility - attractive to me at that time - would think me sympathetic and sensitive and feminist.

Further confession: as much as I hate her, I do think Wurtzel is gorgeous. Or at least was. I'm not sure what she looks like now.
well, I'll tell you one thing if I caught you reading I wouldn't have thought you were all that. If anything I would have thought you were whipped.

Yes, girls use that term, too.

Trust me, Wurtzel is NO feminist.

Kinbote

08-09-2005, 03:26 AM

Please, I was but a wee naive lad at the time. It didn't work, anyway. Doubtless for the best - I can't imagine what spending time around someone who actually likes Wurtzel might have done to my brain. Or soul.

Jackal

08-09-2005, 11:58 AM

Ok, I looked her up and now know why I haven't a clue of who she was. She writes chick books. Poor little me books. They looked stupid and whiney. I've heard of Prozac Nation, never read it. Ah, the joys of judging books by their cover!

If I see a man reading any "chick" or self help books I think they are an idiot and loser.

Narcissistic Nihilist

08-10-2005, 01:30 PM

I really liked Prozac Nation. Its whole point was to be self-pitying, so to criticise it for being so is moronic.

More Cowbell

08-10-2005, 03:50 PM

it went beyond self pitying. It's like saying being a racist is ABOUT being violent and hateful so to citicize racists on that point is irrelevant.

But if you prefer I can criticize Prozac Nation (and Wurtzel herself) on another point that I would find equally flexible to use on a racist (if I ever had the need to) - ignorance. She doesn't just come off as an ignorant person, but from the bulk of her admissions ("memoirs") she is unapologetic about retaining her ignorance to her personal benefit.

By the way, I totally disagree with Jackal about "chick" books and self help literature. Ok, I do have a lot to say on the issue of the self-help industry, but he's/she's just being a jerk.

Narcissistic Nihilist

08-10-2005, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by More Cowbell
it went beyond self pitying. It's like saying being a racist is ABOUT being violent and hateful so to citicize racists on that point is irrelevant.

But if you prefer I can criticize Prozac Nation (and Wurtzel herself) on another point that I would find equally flexible to use on a racist (if I ever had the need to) - ignorance. She doesn't just come off as an ignorant person, but from the bulk of her admissions ("memoirs") she is unapologetic about retaining her ignorance to her personal benefit.

By the way, I totally disagree with Jackal about "chick" books and self help literature. Ok, I do have a lot to say on the issue of the self-help industry, but he's/she's just being a jerk.
Exactly. And if you are reading a book about racists, then it is moronic to criticise that racism.

I dont think she comes off as ignorant at all.

Self-help books are ridiculous.

Kinbote

08-10-2005, 04:58 PM

I'm not certain self-pity is a literary virtue...

Narcissistic Nihilist

08-10-2005, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by UncleLester
I'm not certain self-pity is a literary virtue...
Everything is a literary virtue.

More Cowbell

08-10-2005, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
Everything is a literary virtue.
try the next page in your rolodex. Maybe tomorrow's witty epigram makes some sense.

and yes, she's ignant. ignant about everything outside her bag of skin.

Atomsk Iscariot

08-10-2005, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
Everything is a literary virtue. Ew.

No.

More Cowbell

08-10-2005, 05:49 PM

I think your witticism has been vetoed, NN. But your screen name can stay.

Narcissistic Nihilist

08-10-2005, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by More Cowbell
try the next page in your rolodex. Maybe tomorrow's witty epigram makes some sense.

and yes, she's ignant. ignant about everything outside her bag of skin.
Wrong. Anything is worthy of subject matter. Its not my fault youre so narrow-minded and ignorant.

Narcissistic Nihilist

08-10-2005, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by Atomsk Iscariot
Ew.

No.
Oh.

Yes.

Narcissistic Nihilist

08-10-2005, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by More Cowbell
I think your witticism has been vetoed, NN. But your screen name can stay.
There is no witticism. Try again. My screen name's validity has nothing to do with you and your poor opinions.

Kinbote

08-10-2005, 05:53 PM

I say that stylish prose is the only literary virtue, subject not worthy of consideration. As my man John Hawkes said, "Character, story, and theme are the enemies of writing."

More Cowbell

08-10-2005, 05:54 PM

Calm down. It was a compliment.

Let me try again.

Nice screen name.

Narcissistic Nihilist

08-10-2005, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by UncleLester
I say that stylish prose is the only literary virtue, subject not worthy of consideration. As my man John Hawkes said, "Character, story, and theme are the enemies of writing."
And stylish prose can be done using anything.

That quote is utter shit.

Narcissistic Nihilist

08-10-2005, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by More Cowbell
Calm down. It was a compliment.

Let me try again.

Nice screen name.
Im very calm, thankyou.

Kinbote

08-10-2005, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
And stylish prose can be done using anything.

That quote is utter shit.

But it renders the anything irrelevant.

And I disagree. Character, plot*, and theme are middlebrow distractions from the actual artistic elements of writing.

*I misquoted above, apologies.

Narcissistic Nihilist

08-10-2005, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by UncleLester
But it renders the anything irrelevant.

And I disagree. Character, plot*, and theme are middlebrow distractions from the actual artistic elements of writing.

*I misquoted above, apologies.
No it doesnt. It renders the anything possible.

All fictional writing is about Character. Without it, writing is nothing.

Kinbote

08-10-2005, 11:11 PM

All I care about is diction and cadence.

Narcissistic Nihilist

08-11-2005, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by UncleLester
All I care about is diction and cadence.
Then you must lead a very dull life. Its a shame you are so narrow-minded.

Jackal

08-11-2005, 10:58 AM

If I "see" a man, or woman for that matter reading a self-help book I think ill of them because they are in the public eye exposing their flaws. That's all.

Read whatever you want, please do find inspiration and help anyplace you can find it if you need it. But if you are at work reading a book about alcoholics, then your co-workers will assume you are one.

I am a jerk. I feel the same way when I see fat women reading diet books, or buying pizza but stressing DIET soda, or shoving in tons of food and dessert while talking about wishing they were skinny.

Kinbote

08-11-2005, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
Then you must lead a very dull life. Its a shame you are so narrow-minded.

I think it's a shame that other people are too open-minded!

TheImplodingVoice

08-11-2005, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by UncleLester
I think it's a shame that other people are too open-minded!

I Agree

Atomsk Iscariot

08-11-2005, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
Then you must lead a very dull life. Its a shame you are so narrow-minded. You're not exactly a model of open-mindedness, Danny.

Jackal

08-11-2005, 08:00 PM

I'm a flip-flopper. I see too many points about every issue and my mind changes.

Writing tempo, word choice matter ultimately, sentence by sentence, word by word. Reading out loud, falling into them.

But then again, plot matters in the end. What I've learned, the pictures in my mind. The characters the setting. yummy. Nabokov has it all.

So does the book "TARZAN".

Oh yeah, HUGE Tarzan fan here!

More Cowbell

08-12-2005, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by Jackal
If I "see" a man, or woman for that matter reading a self-help book I think ill of them because they are in the public eye exposing their flaws. That's all.

Read whatever you want, please do find inspiration and help anyplace you can find it if you need it. But if you are at work reading a book about alcoholics, then your co-workers will assume you are one.

I am a jerk. I feel the same way when I see fat women reading diet books, or buying pizza but stressing DIET soda, or shoving in tons of food and dessert while talking about wishing they were skinny.
a) you have no idea WHY they are reading the self-help book. Plus, these books are usually vague on what they are supposed to cure you of, so someone reading, "1001 ways to Improve Your Life" isn't exactly screaming out "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder over here!!". Heck, they might be reading it to get a friend off their back (after the hundredth time they said, "read this book") or maybe they're taking it for a class (believe it or not sometimes you get stuck with dunce books to study)
b) Why does it have to be a fat WOMAN?

Kinbote

08-12-2005, 02:14 AM

Originally posted by More Cowbell

b) Why does it have to be a fat WOMAN?

Why ought it not be?

More Cowbell

08-12-2005, 02:43 AM

Because fat men can be disgusting too.

Kinbote

08-12-2005, 02:51 AM

Did she say they weren't?

More Cowbell

08-12-2005, 03:00 AM

No, it's just that chicks always get the short end of the stick on this one. Because we're "oh-so-emotional" and we read self-help books and worry about our pretty images, but not enough to stress our lifestyles. It just gets pretty annoying. The concensus is that these feelings of inadequacy are singular to women only.