Jeff Buckley-Grace

[Pretentious Bread]

Am I really the only person alive who thinks half of Grace is brilliant, and yet the other half is stinking, self-indulgent, pretentious bollocks? His live stuff is also incredibly self-indulgent. Also, I find some of his lyrics pretty cringeworthy.

I'm not saying this to wind anyone up, it's my honest opinion after listening to Grace several times.

[Mary Alice]

yeah maybe I need to listen to it more but I'm not in love with all of it. He does have a great voice and something special about him but I don't think everything he did was brilliant. Then again I might just need to listen to it more.

[sleepy sinner]

I usually skip Corpus Christie Carol. But I generally love most of the other songs he's done that I've heard. I don't think his lyrics are self-indulgent compared to most emo people out there. One of my favourite songs ever is Everybody Here Wants You.

Although live yes, he does tend to shriek and moan a lot more and for a lot longer, I find it a little annoying at times but at other times I'm ok with it.

[Pretentious Bread]

His lyrics aren't really that self-indulgent, just quite shit sometimes I think. I can't understand how the opening lines from Last Goodbye manage to get away without any criticism from anyone, ever.

Another shitty one is Lilac wine, ugh I hate that song.

My favorite songs on that album are Grace, last goodbye, so real, hallelujah, eternal life and dream brother. The rest are pretty cack if you ask me.

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

I find him rather dull. Nothing bad, just nothing great. I only like Hallelujah, and that isnt his song.

[Fab]

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
I find him rather dull. Nothing bad, just nothing great. I only like Hallelujah, and that isnt his song. he did make it his though, i used to love the leonard cohen version but jeff buckley's is just so much better.

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Originally posted by Fab
he did make it his though, i used to love the leonard cohen version but jeff buckley's is just so much better.
I hope you're joking.

[Pretentious Bread]

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
I hope you're joking.

Most people I know would completely agree with him on that one.

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Originally posted by Pretentious Bread
Most people I know would completely agree with him on that one.
Yet more evidence how Im right, the world is full of idiots.

[Fab]

Don't get me wrong, Leonard Cohen is an absolute genious, but his version of that song wasn't even his best on Various Positions, where it got overshadowed by Dance Me to the End of Love. I thought Jeff Buckley's version harked back to more old school Cohen, before he thought Gospell was a good idea (which nearly ruined First We Take Manhatten) like Famous Blue Raincoat.

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Originally posted by Fab
Don't get me wrong, Leonard Cohen is an absolute genious, but his version of that song wasn't even his best on Various Positions, where it got overshadowed by Dance Me to the End of Love. I thought Jeff Buckley's version harked back to more old school Cohen, before he thought Gospell was a good idea (which nearly ruined First We Take Manhatten) like Famous Blue Raincoat.
But its his song, he knows it best, and ergo would make the better version. I dont see how its logically possible for any cover to be better. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, however.

[Fab]

Not strictly true, knowing how it applies to him doesn't mean someone else could find equally powerfull meaning that applied to themselves in the lyrics, which is one of the things that made Cohen such a great lyricist in the first place.

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Originally posted by Fab
Not strictly true, knowing how it applies to him doesn't mean someone else could find equally powerfull meaning that applied to themselves in the lyrics, which is one of the things that made Cohen such a great lyricist in the first place.
No one can find more meaning in it, than they who create it. Copying another authors story cannot possibly make a better book.

[Reginald I. Perrin]

Good, but not great. Pretty overrated in death. Much like his father.

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Originally posted by Reginald I. Perrin
Pretty overrated in death
Always the case, sadly.

[Fab]

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
No one can find more meaning in it, than they who create it. Copying another authors story cannot possibly make a better book. surley you're not assuming that everyone who finds meaning in a song finds that same meaning the writer intended? A good cover will discover alternate meanings and rework the song to expose them. It's beyond merely copying

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Originally posted by Fab
surley you're not assuming that everyone who finds meaning in a song finds that same meaning the writer intended? A good cover will discover alternate meanings and rework the song to expose them. It's beyond merely copying
a different meaning that someone else finds would be a false one as it is not the one intended. That is not to deny the value of that new meaning just becuase it is false, but it would be paler by comparison.

[Mary Alice]

list of songs written by great performers in their own rights, but the definitive version was a cover by someone else

Otis Reddings "Respect" - Aretha Franklin
Willie Nelson's "Crazy" - Pastsy Cline
and maybe even
Bob Dylan's "All Along the Watchtower" - Jimi Hendrix


cover that makes me the maddest

Dolly Parton's "I Will Always Love You" - a overblown to great proportions by Whitney Houston

I don't know though artits can connect to something in a song and maybe reach different people with their cover than the original artist.

[Drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by Mary Alice
list of songs written by great performers in their own rights, but the definitive version was a cover by someone else

Otis Reddings "Respect" - Aretha Franklin
Willie Nelson's "Crazy" - Pastsy Cline
and maybe even
Bob Dylan's "All Along the Watchtower" - Jimi Hendrix


cover that makes me the maddest

Dolly Parton's "I Will Always Love You" - a overblown to great proportions by Whitney Houston

I don't know though artits can connect to something in a song and maybe reach different people with their cover than the original artist. Hmmm....tough to argue there.

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

The most famous version does not equate to the best version.

[Kelly Kapowski]

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
But its his song, he knows it best, and ergo would make the better version. I dont see how its logically possible for any cover to be better. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, however.
Yes, but you're also assuming that the artist covering the song has less emotional attatchment to the song than the actual writer itself, but that could be entirely untrue in some cases. Granted, one would probably have some serious sentiment for a song they wrote themselves, but in special cases that might not take away anything from the value it has to someone else covering it. I've heard quite a few covers that i, in fact, believe to be better than the original. but, like you said, that's my opinion.

I adore Jeff, i really do, and i adore 'Grace' as well, but i do agree there are a few songs that i will skip over. However, the songs i DO like completely outweigh any dislike for any other song and still make the album brilliant to me.

[Atomsk Iscariot]

Originally posted by Kelly Kapowski
I adore Jeff, i really do, and i adore 'Grace' as well, but i do agree there are a few songs that i will skip over. However, the songs i DO like completely outweigh any dislike for any other song and still make the album brilliant to me. Essentially, this is exactly how I feel about the album. Thank you.

[sleepy sinner]

I'm open to the possibility that a band can make a cover version of a song that is better to certain people than the original. Some new version of old songs I really like, just because they might be a bit funkier or upbeat, a bit more relevant to me in the now or change the mood to something I find more powerful or can relate to more. For example, I like both Jeff Buckley and even Rufus Wainwright's versions of Hallelujah because Leornard Cohen has never really done it for me, he's from a time and of a mentality that is quite removed from where I am in my life, and I'm not sure I'll ever be there.

This is rare, though, it's far easier and more common to make a shit cover than a good cover. But good covers do actually happen.

I'm not sure Lilac Wine was written by Jeff either Pretentious bread, I'm pretty sure he says on my live DVD it was written by a friend of his.

[Kinbote]

I have emotions, and I am going to loudly announce them.

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Originally posted by Kelly Kapowski
Yes, but you're also assuming that the artist covering the song has less emotional attatchment to the song than the actual writer itself, but that could be entirely untrue in some cases. Granted, one would probably have some serious sentiment for a song they wrote themselves, but in special cases that might not take away anything from the value it has to someone else covering it. I've heard quite a few covers that i, in fact, believe to be better than the original. but, like you said, that's my opinion.

I adore Jeff, i really do, and i adore 'Grace' as well, but i do agree there are a few songs that i will skip over. However, the songs i DO like completely outweigh any dislike for any other song and still make the album brilliant to me.
Thats not an assumption, thats the reality. It would be INCREDIBLY arrogant and entirely untrue for anyone doing a cover to claim to have more attachment to a song than its composer.

[motorcyclemptiness]

I bought that "Live at Sin-E" Special Edition thing, and it's like, really boring.

[Pretentious Bread]

Originally posted by motorcyclemptiness
I bought that "Live at Sin-E" Special Edition thing, and it's like, really boring.

What did I tell you? His live stuff is awful.

[motorcyclemptiness]

You didn't tell me that a year ago. For some reason I can't bring myself to sell it cos I payed 30 bucks for it and I feel like at some time I should get more than one listen in for that.

The DVD is cool, though.

[Atomsk Iscariot]

I really like the double-CD of Live at Sin-E.

Especially his covers of "Calling You," "Drown in My Own Tears," and "If You Knew," which are just immensely beautiful to my ears. Especially "If You Knew," which he just hits out of the park. Brings tears to my eyes everytime. Practically the only song that can do that.

[Barbarian Love Elephant]

Wasnt buckleys verison based off john cales verison rather than cohen?

I like grace but half of it is cack i much prefer sweetheart

[Atomsk Iscariot]

Originally posted by Ms.
Wasnt buckleys verison based off john cales verison rather than cohen? I certainly remember him saying that it wasn't based off of Cohen's recording. I don't remember who he said exactly, but it might as well have been John Cale.

[Atomsk Iscariot]

Originally posted by Ms.
I like grace but half of it is cack i much prefer sweetheart Though I still think Grace is more consistent, I've always said that if you want to know exactly how talented Buckley was, pick up Sketches.

[Stevie Nicks]

The only song on Grace I don't like is Lilac Wine, and Buckley's originals hold up very well. It's nice and atmospheric. I don't mind the lyrics for last goodbye, I don't find them noticeably cringe-worthy at least. Good album! wheee

[Barbarian Love Elephant]

Niall you're not dead! (i'm kinda disappointed my little northern friend)

Grace is more consistent but was sketches was never meant to be i vagually remember reading that buckley was not happy with the recordings and was going to scrap and start over again,true/false?

[Pretentious Bread]

Originally posted by Niall
The only song on Grace I don't like is Lilac Wine, and Buckley's originals hold up very well. It's nice and atmospheric. I don't mind the lyrics for last goodbye, I don't find them noticeably cringe-worthy at least. Good album! wheee

So you mean to say you enjoy Mojo pin, Lover you should have come over and even Corpus Christi Carol? Jesus........

[Atomsk Iscariot]

Originally posted by Ms.
Grace is more consistent but was sketches was never meant to be i vagually remember reading that buckley was not happy with the recordings and was going to scrap and start over again,true/false? True, but those original sessions are still awesome. "Vancouver," "Witch's Rave," and "Nightmares by the Sea" are all insanely good.

[Atomsk Iscariot]

Originally posted by Pretentious Bread
So you mean to say you enjoy Mojo pin, Lover you should have come over and even Corpus Christi Carol? Jesus........ I LOVE all three of these songs.

How can someone dislike Corpus Christi Carol anyway? It's too short to hate. Hell, I find it to be a quite beautiful rendition of a standard.

[Barbarian Love Elephant]

Oh I feel the spell that you have cast, hot, pink, nasty
Bubble gum, coming down just like a big red coal

umpf

[Pretentious Bread]

Originally posted by Atomsk Iscariot
I LOVE all three of these songs.

How can someone dislike Corpus Christi Carol anyway? It's too short to hate. Hell, I find it to be a quite beautiful rendition of a standard.

No, wrong. It's just him doing a bad impression of an Alto rehearsing with a hangover. It's the height of pretentiousness, and I know about being pretentious, foo.

[Atomsk Iscariot]

Originally posted by Ms.
Oh I feel the spell that you have cast, hot, pink, nasty
Bubble gum, coming down just like a big red coal

umpf FOR A GUARANTEE!

[Pretentious Bread]

This is our last goodbye
I hate to feel the love between us die
But it's over
Just hear this and then i'll go
You gave me more to live for
More than you'll ever know

This is our last embrace
Must I dream and always see your face
Why can't we overcome this wall
Well, maybe it's just because i didn't know you at all

[Barbarian Love Elephant]

Originally posted by Atomsk Iscariot
FOR A GUARANTEE!

WHERES MY SONG BITCH!

[Stevie Nicks]

Originally posted by Pretentious Bread
So you mean to say you enjoy Mojo pin, Lover you should have come over and even Corpus Christi Carol? Jesus........

Yeah, though Corpus Christi Carol less so. I don't particularly love it but i think it's a nice mood piece and it's the right length.

[sleepy sinner]

Mojo Pin's become one of my favourite songs off the album, musically it's awesome. Some of the lyrics are simple but it reaches a great crescendo with 'The welts of your scorn my love give me more, send whips of opinion down my back give me more. It's you I've waited my life to see, it's you I've searched so hard for'.

There's so much for me about my life and experiences contained in those simple lines. So many people intentionally interact with each other in ways that hurt each other but without destroying each other. A balance is reached.

He has a romantic style, and he might write dorky lyrics sometimes but to me his songs evoke concepts more than an individual story from the lyrics, it's about what people feel when they go through things, like love, but are too scared to ever utter out loud for fear of sounding stupid. But he says them and I think there's bravery and beauty in writing your love poems large! That's how the songs are written, it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea.

Lover You Should Have Come Over makes me cry sometimes. It's again so simple. It's about profound regret. Most people have experienced that.

[Pulseczar]

I still get chills whenever I listen to the song "Grace"...especially towards the end when he goes crazy with the falsetto. :-D

[Kill the Poor]

jeff buckley was a bad songwriter.