For those of you in LA... the wall needs help!

[Joe Shmoe]

Hi everybody! I haven't been on here in a really long time, so I'm not really current on the goings on in Sweet Addy, but hello! I've got something that I think maybe some of you out there might can help with!

Charlie just dropped me a line and let me know that there's been some graffiti on the Wall at Solutions-

This is an invitation. Please don't feel obligated, but IF there's someone in Los Angeles, (at least one woman comes to mind as someone who may want to take this on,) who feels that they have a little bit of spare time and the desire, there's something you can do to help...

The people who own the Memorial Wall have complained that non-Elliott-related graffiti, (spray-painted tagged graffiti art, etc,) has started getting out of control. The owners are fine with notes to and/or about Elliott, but they say that if we don't paint over the graffiti, they're going to paint over the entire wall.

This is a bit of a sensitive issue- free speech, etc, and just courtesy to other fans needs to be considered... If there's someone who wants to take on this task, you need to be careful not to paint over something that you personally may not agree with, but was put up there with thought or care to or about Elliott. This is really just to clean up completely obvious graffiti. It's sometimes a bit of a fine line, but all we can do is just use our best judgement.

Does anyone want to do it? That wall is for the fans, by the fans, so there's no motivation other than just those of us who take comfort in the memorial wanting to preserve it. It's not formally sanctioned by me or anyone else, it's just a community response that arose from celebrating/memorializing his life. If someone would like to take this on, how about you respond to this thread. Maybe there's more than one person, and some of you could share some of the responsibilities. I used to have the paint, but when I moved from Los Angeles, I passed them on to someone to take care of it, and I think she may have moved out of the area...

Let's use this thread to discuss some possibilities, if y'all are up for it. The wall was initially started, (at least I think,) for a place of reflection and memories, and something that has good vibes surrounding it. It is my hope that, at least for this thread, we keep the dialog positive and uplifting. What do you say?

Thanks a lot for everything, everyone. I hope you are all doing well.

Sincerely,
Ashley

PS. I'd be happy to send a check for some paint, if that will help. I know times are tight for most all of us right now- so while the labor would have to be volunteered, I bet I can scrape together the funds for the supplies! Let me know!

[solveig]

too far away
& the board has
its graffiti too
but hello

[angel in the snow]

omg! i would do it...but i'm sorta far away and too broke to travel.
but could someone please, please do it.
i haven't had a chance to visit the wall YET.
and i would love too, basically i have to go.
but i can't for at least another two years.....:(
it would kill me if that wall wasn't there when i went.
and i think lots of others feel the same way.

[angel in the snow]

:cry: :cry:

[BunnyApple]

Hi Ashley

I would love to be able to help, but sadly I’m in England so in practical terms getting to the wall and helping to maintain it is not possible :darn:

BUT … I would love to be able to help contribute towards the materials needed for the maintenance of the wall (and perhaps too, towards expenses etc for the person(s) who take this role on?) …

Although I have not yet had the opportunity to visit the wall I hope one day that I can – I guess in my head I have this little dream of making a kind of pilgrimage there :darn::heart:

From the pictures I’ve seen, and the stories I’ve heard from people who have visited, it’s a very special place … a place created by fans, for fans, and one which we should all try our damnedest to preserve :heart:

That said I realise that it’s easy for us fans to be idealistic about the wall and that we need to understand that the owners are being very kind allowing it to be used as a tribute to Elliott.

Thus with this in mind I am guessing that keeping the wall free of non-Elliott related graffiti needs to be an ongoing task … with volunteers agreeing to check it at regular intervals (say every couple of months) and corresponding dates pencilled in for the same, or other, volunteers to clean up any new non-Elliott related stuff. Also I guess that outside these pre-determined dates a person or persons need to be available and contactable in case any ‘emergency’ clean-ups need to take place.

If the guys who own the wall know that there is a sort of ‘rota’ set-up for it to be checked for, and cleared of, unwanted graffiti then this may help to appease them and keep everyone happy?

I don’t know, I wish I was nearer and I really wish I could help :heart:

Please let me know if I can help contribute financially.

Take care,
xo
Em

[space girl lost]

i'm in boston. if i were there i so would do it.

it kills me that i know i probably rode right past it last summer and didn't know at the time. gah.


someone ... SOMEONE must be out there willing to, yes? please? i'll ... um ... bake something. i'll ... um ...

:cry:



yeah. consider me another volunteer to conribue to any funds needed to cover the task.

[charlie]

hi everyone!
i dont know if anyone saw the other thread about taking pictures of the wall but that was the reason, to see what the wall looks like. the renter of the space behind the wall is concerned that the non related elliott writing was getting out of hand and was stuck between a hard place because of a few reasons. he respects elliott and understands how meaningful the wall is to us but at the same time he is worried that its kinda inviting people to write none related stuff on it. it is his business space too so its been hard on that too. also he hard rumors that maybe they would get rid of the design of the wall so he wanted to make sure we were aware and was wondering if we would try and perserve it.

anyway i was looking at the pictures to see how easy it would be to fix it and of course it would be hard. you can tell that in certain areas it was repainted and it looks kinda bad. so i think the consideration was to kinda restore the wall including painting over our messages (including mine) a la abbey road does. i havent talked to the owner of solutions yet to get his thoughts but i also talked to the estate & told ashley (sorry ashley i didnt give you the whole story!) and they said they would help out. i was thinking of making something fun out of this were we would be the ones painting the wall because we would be more caring of what was written there instead someone just wiping the messages out. i was thinking of going down to la maybe sometime next month or the following and seeing if anyone wanted to help and meet other fans. then see what we might have to do in the future if anyone can help out who lives in l.a. anyway i realize this is a very emotional decision. we are so bless to have this place to remember elliott. we should totally take care of it even though we might have to makes some sacrifices to what we wrote to elliott. i hope this comes out ok :hides behind something:
xo
charlie

[alexandra]

charlie,
i like that idea. :) i know that a lot of people will be upset about their messages being painted over, but i think it'd be good. that way it'd be nice and clean, and new messages could go up. :)

I go to la 3 - 5 times a year and would be happy to help with this in any way possible. if you need company on that trip charlie, i'd be happy to go with :)

[charlie]

hi alex
yeah that part is so hard. i hope people understand. yeah i forgot to mentioned that the person who asked me was ok with people still sending messages to elliott too. but yeah awesome maybe we can go togther. that would be totally fun :)
xo

[candylion]

wish i could help... and i hope i get to visit the wall someday. i feel silly saying that, but it's important to me...

hope you're doing well ashley! :heart:

[Joe Shmoe]

Hello! And hi Charlie! OH- sorry, I didn't realize that they want us to restore it to it's original design, and paint over existing messages... Well, if that's what it takes, I suppose that's the thing to do. People can write more messages on there. Or it can just go back to the wall that drew him to it for his record cover in the first place...

Is it definite that they want it painted fresh, over all existing messages? If so, that seems so sad, but it sounds like we may not have a choice. In spots where there's no graffiti, and messages are intact, can those be left? I'm not saying they definitely should be, I just want us all to be clear on what needs to happen.

Hmmm... is LL on here somewhere? I know she lives nearby, and I thought she might have more info on the state of the wall right now, and just how bad it is.

It sounds like someone needs to go over to Solutions and get ahold of the people who own it and figure out exactly what it's going to take to keep the wall intact, or what needs to happen to at least keep it the original design, (if "intact" isn't an option.)

Any takers?

Allright, I hope you are all well. And Charlie, thanks for the info!

Take care,
Ashley

[loveishell7]

Originally posted by charlie
i was thinking of going down to la maybe sometime next month or the following and seeing if anyone wanted to help and meet other fans.


I'd be very interested :yes:


keep us posted!


(i was talking to Elina Shatkin last week, who helped film the Olympia show, and she had some really nice things to say about having met Ashley/about the memorial fund :cool: ..btw)

[SpongepeteRosepants]

there are pictures posted of the current state of the wall on this thread that charlie started on the main board:

http://www.blamonet.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=72343


wish i could help, but i'm in pdx :(

[llaurens]

Originally posted by Joe Shmoe
Hello! And hi Charlie! OH- sorry, I didn't realize that they want us to restore it to it's original design, and paint over existing messages... Well, if that's what it takes, I suppose that's the thing to do. People can write more messages on there. Or it can just go back to the wall that drew him to it for his record cover in the first place...

Is it definite that they want it painted fresh, over all existing messages? If so, that seems so sad, but it sounds like we may not have a choice. In spots where there's no graffiti, and messages are intact, can those be left? I'm not saying they definitely should be, I just want us all to be clear on what needs to happen.

Hmmm... is LL on here somewhere? I know she lives nearby, and I thought she might have more info on the state of the wall right now, and just how bad it is.

It sounds like someone needs to go over to Solutions and get ahold of the people who own it and figure out exactly what it's going to take to keep the wall intact, or what needs to happen to at least keep it the original design, (if "intact" isn't an option.)

Any takers?

Allright, I hope you are all well. And Charlie, thanks for the info!

Take care,
Ashley
Hi Ashley :)
You're so sweet to remember me, I cannot check the board very often right now because I'm not home :( ... I'm in France visiting my family, but I will be back to LA very soon, on august 8th to be exact.

I know, the wall looks kind of dirty and messy now, and I would be very happy to help when I'm back. As soon as I'm back I will talk to the owners; last time I talked to them, they had already said we could paint over the graffiti. I think they said they would provide the paint.
Anyway, I will help, because it means a lot to me.

Originally posted by Charlie

i was thinking of going down to la maybe sometime next month or the following and seeing if anyone wanted to help and meet other fans. then see what we might have to do in the future if anyone can help out who lives in l.a. anyway i realize this is a very emotional decision.

Next month! it's perfect, keep me posted :)

[lexxx]

I can be there whenever you need me.

In fact, the little sister had some red and black paint left over from when she painted her room last summer.

I'll pm you guys.

:heart: :heart:

[Ella Megalast]

i'm racing against the clock here (lunch hour) but thought i'd reply as i happen to work in collections and conservation of art. please let me know if you are interested in finding any L.A. contacts for conservators who may be interested in doing some work gratis (for the Memorial Fund).

i'll check back here soon and feel free to PM me, in the meantime, should you need any personal details and/or to let me know who is coordinating. unfortuantely, i'm in virginia or i'd offer my services.

all the best,
-e.
xo

[sanrio and co]

oh good!!! i'm so glad people responded!!!

matt just posted this thread in charlie's thread on the other board...
i'm not coming home until late august but i would love to help.
i will pitch in money for paint
i have some paint here but it would probably just be easier to send alexis some money than to try and send paint haha
:heart:

[lexxx]

Originally posted by sanrio and co
it would probably just be easier to send alexis some money than to try and send paint haha
:heart: *always* feel free to send alexis your money ;)

i'll call erika tonight [statueofagirl] i'm pretty sure she was friendly with some of the guys at solutions, i'll check to see if that's still the case.

i took my friend sarah out to the wall about a month or two ago and i haven't been there since. i used to go every month on the 21st and i was thinking about going tonight. i'll probably do that.

if anyone catches this and wants to meet me out there tonight, pm me.

xo y'all

[Ella Megalast]

Originally posted by sanrio and co
oh good!!! i'm so glad people responded!!!

matt just posted this thread in charlie's thread on the other board...
i'm not coming home until late august but i would love to help.
i will pitch in money for paint
i have some paint here but it would probably just be easier to send alexis some money than to try and send paint haha
:heart:
i just re-read above messages (not in a rush) and see that the wall will be repainted, not conserved...i'd be happy to pitch in some money for paint/supplies, too!

[Joe Shmoe]

Hello! Thanks to all of you for writing in so fast! You know, I'm getting more and more sad about the thought of losing this wall as a memorial site. It's not mine, it's not any of ours, but it's the ONLY physical site that people have to go and pay their respects. (at least in a formal way- people have done some beautiful and amazing things all over the world for him, and I'm sure have done lots of personal things too...)

I know it's just a wall, and Elliott was drawn to it just plain and simple, how it was, so if it has to go back to that, it's going to be okay. It's just sad to think about. I hope we can salvage it, if not for all those who have already gone and seen it, but for those who have not yet gotten the chance and want to.

But if not, it will be okay too. It's encouraging that the owners will still allow notes to him, etc, even if we have to start from scratch on the paint. Let's hope that we can come up with something beautiful for that wall that is in accordance with what the owners have in mind. I trust that if y'all are involved, whatever comes of it will be nice.

I'm sorry that I'm so far away and can't take care of this myself. I'm glad to hear that at least one local is in on the project, (thanks, LL!) and that there's others who may want to help out too!

As always, you guys are wonderful. Take good care!
Ashley

[Kitty Fantastico]

hello.
i wish i could be there to help.
like the others i'd contribute money for paint as well.
let me know.
~:heart:

[sanrio and co]

Originally posted by the lex
*always* feel free to send alexis your money ;)

i'll call erika tonight [statueofagirl] i'm pretty sure she was friendly with some of the guys at solutions, i'll check to see if that's still the case.

i took my friend sarah out to the wall about a month or two ago and i haven't been there since. i used to go every month on the 21st and i was thinking about going tonight. i'll probably do that.

if anyone catches this and wants to meet me out there tonight, pm me.

xo y'all
hahahah :O!!!
i was going to call erika...you read my mind!!!

she is friends with one of the guys at solutions.

thank you alexis for taking the time to do this...i wish i was there to help :( :heart:

[sanrio and co]

Originally posted by Joe Shmoe
Hello! Thanks to all of you for writing in so fast! You know, I'm getting more and more sad about the thought of losing this wall as a memorial site. It's not mine, it's not any of ours, but it's the ONLY physical site that people have to go and pay their respects. (at least in a formal way- people have done some beautiful and amazing things all over the world for him, and I'm sure have done lots of personal things too...)

I know it's just a wall, and Elliott was drawn to it just plain and simple, how it was, so if it has to go back to that, it's going to be okay. It's just sad to think about. I hope we can salvage it, if not for all those who have already gone and seen it, but for those who have not yet gotten the chance and want to.

But if not, it will be okay too. It's encouraging that the owners will still allow notes to him, etc, even if we have to start from scratch on the paint. Let's hope that we can come up with something beautiful for that wall that is in accordance with what the owners have in mind. I trust that if y'all are involved, whatever comes of it will be nice.

I'm sorry that I'm so far away and can't take care of this myself. I'm glad to hear that at least one local is in on the project, (thanks, LL!) and that there's others who may want to help out too!

As always, you guys are wonderful. Take good care!
Ashley
thank you ashley for letting us all know about this
xo :heart:

[Somebody'sBaby]

I'm so glad there're such wonderul people here :love:

I know there's no formal organizer of this project, but I'm in LA all the time, I have a very flexible schedule now and would be more than happy to give some time/effort/a little moolah to this...this really does mean a lot to me too :heart: ....I mean it, ANYTHING I can do that needs to be done, just PM me and let me know.

[lexxx]

if you're in la why aren't we making out?

sorry. *hanging out

[Somebody'sBaby]

I hope you're talking to me cause like, I'm available for hanging out, making out, other types of outs, that sort of thing, anytime!

[oh los angeles]

I was the one who went yesterday and took the pictures of the wall... it wasnt looking in great shape. Also the parts that had previously been painted over were obvious and a bit obtrusive. I posted a picture i took about a year ago and it looked amazing when it was just the notes to elliott. But to paint over the whole wall? that seems so drastic. I think we could definately try and salvage parts of the wall that werent touched by graffiti. You can tell that some of the messages were from people far away who took a journey just to get to the wall. I know some of my messages have been painted over and its very upsetting to find out. So to sum up i will do anything to help. I can go to talk to the solutions people or start painting over the graffiti right away, someone just give me the word. But i leave to go back to school in new york at the end of august so i want to get on it soon before i go back.

[lexxx]

Originally posted by Somebody'sBaby
I hope you're talking to me cause like, I'm available for hanging out, making out, other types of outs, that sort of thing, anytime! smoking out?

[ParentheticalThought]

I'm in Boston with no access to LA but I'd be happy to contribute $$$ for paint or whatever you need.

And to weigh into the debate: I'm ok with restoring the wall to it's original wave-covered look. I don't even think I'd feel differently if I had been one of the people who had written on it. It's kind of hard to explain but I think of those notes not as ink so much as thought balloons that have been released. The wall was just the medium used. If the ink is painted over, it doesn't mean that those thoughts aren't still floating out there, available to Elliott. Restoring the wall will just provide fresh opportunity for people to release more new balloons for him.

I know that sounds kind of dippy.....

[Somebody'sBaby]

Originally posted by the lex
smoking out?

hmmmm.... :tacos:

[fake concerns]

Originally posted by ParentheticalThought

And to weigh into the debate: I'm ok with restoring the wall to it's original wave-covered look. I don't even think I'd feel differently if I had been one of the people who had written on it. It's kind of hard to explain but I think of those notes not as ink so much as thought balloons that have been released. The wall was just the medium used. If the ink is painted over, it doesn't mean that those thoughts aren't still floating out there, available to Elliott. Restoring the wall will just provide fresh opportunity for people to release more new balloons for him.


I have to agree with PT on this one. I think it would be nice if the wall was restored to its original red-white-black waviness. I know there will be people who are upset that their messages were painted over, but they'll still be there. I don't think I could have said it better than PT, so I'll leave it at that.

[tasha]

:( :(

i haven't been there yet and would still like to see what everyone wrote...but...if it needs to change - it will...nothing stops things from changin...

but what's to keep people from tagging it even if it gets painted over?

i wish there was a way to keep that from happening...

:( :(

thank you Ashley and Charlie and Solutions and everyone who wrote their hearts out :heart:

[llaurens]

I know it may look sad to paint over all the messages written by so many people who came from all over the world to pay homage, but now many of the messages are not even readable! some graffiti have already been painted over in the past, and at the same time some messages have been partly erased, so it doesn't look good at all :(
you can see that on the pictures taken by oh los angeles
I don't see how we could preserve some messages and only paint over the graffiti! so I agree with those who are saying the wall should be completely restored.
I will be back in LA on august 8th, and if Somebody's Baby, oh los angeles, Charlie (?) and others are still available, we could meet with the owners of Solutions and decide when/how to do it? thank you to those who are offering money for the paint! :)

[oh los angeles]

maybe that is the best option, so sad...but at least we'll be able to write messages again and parentheticalthought put it beautifully that the messages were like thought bubbles, makes me feel a lot better about painting over them. Well im ready to start with llaurens and somebodys baby, and charlie...im sure we'll get a good number of people out there to help.

Originally posted by llaurens
I know it may look sad to paint over all the messages written by so many people who came from all over the world to pay homage, but now many of the messages are not even readable! some graffiti have already been painted over in the past, and at the same time some messages have been partly erased, so it doesn't look good at all :(
you can see that on the pictures taken by oh los angeles
I don't see how we could preserve some messages and only paint over the graffiti! so I agree with those who are saying the wall should be completely restored.
I will be back in LA on august 8th, and if Somebody's Baby, oh los angeles, Charlie (?) and others are still available, we could meet with the owners of Solutions and decide when/how to do it? thank you to those who are offering money for the paint! :)

[Somebody'sBaby]

Originally posted by llaurens
I will be back in LA on august 8th, and if Somebody's Baby, oh los angeles, Charlie (?) and others are still available, we could meet with the owners of Solutions and decide when/how to do it? thank you to those who are offering money for the paint! :)

Sounds perfect.

[charlie]

im totally willing to come help out. we need to contact stephon for his thoughts. ive been swamped where ive had no time to email him to get final approval plus im out of town next week too. also my mom is having a procedure done next month too. i need to know when that is before i can come and help. for the most part eveything is in place except for permission from solutions and a day :)

[Joe Shmoe]

Wow, you guys are wonderful. It sounds like the ball is rolling. Whoever in LA that wants to coordinate collecting donations from us for paint, post up an address, and I'll get something in the mail to you. It sounds like the immediate thing to do is contact Stephon at Solutions. As soon as someone does that, why don't you post, so we know that that part's been taken care of.

And, this goes without saying, but I'm going to say it anyway- I hope nobody feels the need to run anything by me. You don't. The wall is by fans, for the fans, just like this site. I'm one of those fans. I'm glad we're all putting in our opinions on what the best thing for the wall is. If those of you out in LA have a plan and it sounds good to you, run with it!

And Charlie, I'm sending good thoughts to your mom and you for her procedure. It sounds like she's in good hands, and I'm sorry for not mentioning that before... :( It's amazing what modern technology can do- keep your head up. With all of us wishing her well, she's bound to come out just fine!

Take care, everyone!
Ashley

[lexxx]

hey team -

i'll call solutions tonight and see if i can reach stephon. i'll post any info on here so you guys know what's going on, and i'll get in touch with c-money and ashley just so we're all on the same page.

i went to the wall last night and it can definitely use some touching up. i think this is going to be a good thing :) :yes:

chuck - i hope all goes well with mom. my thoughts will be with you two.

ashley - we'll talk again soon

xo y'all :heart:

[lexxx]

alright so i just got off the phone with stephon's wife [who is sweet as sugar btw] and things are looking good.

they have no problem with us doing whatever we feel we need to do to the wall, so long as the tagging is removed. she said she'd hate to see all of the wonderful notes painted over, but something needs to be done about the graffiti which i think we all agree with..

i'm going there tomorrow to meet with the two of them and i'll keep you guys informed.

gotta get back to work, but i'll post more about our convo later tonight or tomorrow after i talk with them.

heartz

[Somebody'sBaby]

;)

[lexxx]

alright so i spent like an hour at solutions yesterday and here's what we talked about -

stephon [the owner of the shop] was the guy wo designed and painted the wall. it's really important to him that the colors and desgin stay the same, and i told him i'm sure we'd all agree.

he has a couple of ideas of what he would like to do with the space. he is very much interested in erecting some sort of statue or figure that will represent elliott and that will hopefully make it clear to the passers by that this is a memorial site, not just some wall people are free to write on. he sounded like he had put a lot of thought into the idea of constructing something out of the guts of different electrical appliences, such as computers, radios, etc. he said that he and elliott had spent loads of time talking about electricity and technology. his idea was to start with the base, where there would be some sort of writing that we could come up with, and build a pole that he described as the "spine". from there he wanted to start with the shoes and work his way up to his shoulders and face, have him standing just as he was on the figure 8 cover. he said he was looking for sculpters, welders, and other artists to try to figure out exactly how this could be done.

as for the wall, he slowly wants to repaint it. he thought one stripe at a time. he doesn't want to sand it to remove any of the messages, he said if we painted over it then they would all still be there. he had the idea of picking out 10 messages and going over them with metal, so that they might stick out a bit. his idea was that if you took a magnent, you could trace the messages accross the wall.

all of these ideas sounded great, but it also sounded like an intense project. he said he thinks it'll take about 8 months total.




alight guys, i'm late for an important date so i gotta run but that's pretty much all the info i got. i'll be around later tonight..

hope everyone is well.

[meepmeep]

elliott really deserves an official memorial place wherever that could be ... hmm.

all of this reminds me of how there is really very little in the way of a Jack Kerouac memorial. his home town barely recognizes him. :darn:

[lexxx]

c'mon guys i need some feedback for him. he said he'd call me early this week to get an initial response from you all..

let's hear everyone's thoughts.

nothing is set in stone yet. this is still a work in progress. he didn't seem too attached to this idea, it was something he was kicking around. he's interested in any and all input you guys have, positive or negative.

dun be shy

[fake concerns]

I love the idea, Lex. I think it would be great to have an official-type memorial for the world to see. I love the idea behind the statue, as well. This could be something really special.

[tasha]

fantastic idea :heart:

should a thread be started on the main board to get more people's attention???

Stephon sounds like an amazing person...thanks for doing this :heart:

[ParentheticalThought]

I love the idea of a more permanent memorial too, and I love just as much the idea that this guy is going so out of his way to do more when he could be telling us we've done enough with his wall already and to give it up.

To be disgustingly practical for a moment, though: as we've seen with the wall, upkeep is everything. Whether the wall project ends up simple or complicated, someone is going to have to look out for it - welds break, plastic wears out, graffiti artists show up no matter what. There are reasons why so many memorials are made of stone and bronze. It might be helpful for Stephon and others involved in the design and execution to talk to a conservator - perhaps one at a local museum would help for free since this is such a grass-roots sort of deal - not to change the design but so that whatever is done to the wall can last as long as possible with as little upkeep as possible.

[space girl lost]

i'm all for something more permanent. definately.

everyone has brought good comments/issues though. upkeep will have to be had, yes.

i wish i was out there on the west coast now just to be able to see if for myself. i feel like clarity is lacking b/c i've still yet to see it.

[wardle]

Originally posted by the lex
alright so i spent like an hour at solutions yesterday and here's what we talked about -

he is very much interested in erecting some sort of statue or figure that will represent elliott and that will hopefully make it clear to the passers by that this is a memorial site, not just some wall people are free to write on.

or a ferdinand?

elliott seemed to chose ferdinand as his tattoo because he connected with the story and because he saw some of himself in that character.

for me, whenever i see that bull i see elliott, it's flipped over and now elliott represents ferdinand.

did that make sense??

anyhow, i wish i were in the US to help with the wall.

[llaurens]

Thank you for all these new infos! it seems like a very ambitious project, I too like the idea of a permanent and official memorial.
Stephon seems like a talented person with a lot of ideas; he once told me he wanted to open a cafe close to the wall, a cafe where everyone would have heard Elliott's music, I don't know if he still has this idea in the back of his mind.
The idea of a statue made of electrical stuff is original!
But does he want to repaint the wall by himself or can we help him? I'm ready to help but he seems to have very precise and interesting ideas!
I'm all for preserving some messages but I'm not sure I completely understand how he wants to do it. :rolleyes:
Did he tell you how we can help him for the wall?

[Ella Megalast]

Originally posted by space girl lost
i'm all for something more permanent. definately.

everyone has brought good comments/issues though. upkeep will have to be had, yes.

i wish i was out there on the west coast now just to be able to see if for myself. i feel like clarity is lacking b/c i've still yet to see it. ditto...i think you have to be there on-site to generate ideas...right now, it's just a flat 2-D image in my mind and i am unsure of how the mural is in relation to other buildings, electrical lines, (palm) trees, etc.

stephon's ideas were certainly intriguing and it is a lovely idea to make this a permanent memorial.

would painting any text in the corners make a statement (that is alongside or slightly on top of the re-painted pattern)? like a lyric and his name and life dates? this would identify the site to casual passer-bys who no nothing of elliott.

[lexxx]

he wants/needs our help. he's all for the fans having a say in what happens with the space.


shit. work.

i'll post more later today.

hope everyone is well..

:heart:

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by Ella Megalast


would painting any text in the corners make a statement (that is alongside or slightly on top of the re-painted pattern)? like a lyric and his name and life dates? this would identify the site to casual passer-bys who no nothing of elliott.

I like this idea. It's subtle but could make a real point. Perhaps a lyric or two, his name and dates could frame the wall (go all around the edges of the wave design)? Would Stephon go for that or would it change his design too much?

[llaurens]

Thanks! :)
I will also try to talk to him when I'm back. I hope everybody can agree on a project soon, as I will have more free time to help in august than in september!

Originally posted by the lex
he wants/needs our help. he's all for the fans having a say in what happens with the space.


shit. work.

i'll post more later today.

hope everyone is well..

:heart:

[Ella Megalast]

Originally posted by ParentheticalThought
I like this idea. It's subtle but could make a real point. Perhaps a lyric or two, his name and dates could frame the wall (go all around the edges of the wave design)? Would Stephon go for that or would it change his design too much? yea, that is what i was wondering...would it be too much to have the text written in cursive (in stylized Elliott's handwriting) or should it be in a corner, say upper left hand corner, where it can be boldly seen?

the next question would be...which lyrics? what succinctly can say all the wonderful things about Elliott's song-writing genius and his gentle soul at the same time?

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by Ella Megalast

the next question would be...which lyrics? what succinctly can say all the wonderful things about Elliott's song-writing genius and his gentle soul at the same time?


I know everyone uses this quote - but "I'm never gonna know you now, but I'm gonna love you anyhow" should be one of the lyrics. I hope we're not limited to one, though.

Maybe then a`lyric from someone he admired?

[fake concerns]

I agree with PT that maybe having lyric/quote from someone he admired would be nice.

But I've got a few suggestions... I don't know if they're good. I was just looking through the lyrics section of sweet addy to get some ideas...

----

you painted pictures of
a never-neverland and i could've gone to that place
but i didn't understand

the first true love that folded at the slightest touch

i got a long way to go
i'm getting further away

why should you want any other when you're a world within a world?

---

Like I said, I don't know if those'll do. I know we need some lyrics that define who elliott was as a person, and I don't know if those really exemplify that... but I tried...

[ParentheticalThought]

Elliott admired George Harrison:

Tell me, what is my life without your love?
Tell me, who am I without you by my side?

Isn't it a pity, isn't it a shame,
How we break each other's hearts
and cause each other pain.


I doubt those are the best, but they're a start. I dunno, it might hijack the memorial to have someone else's lyrics up there. Maybe prose.

A while ago there was a thread about other bands/songwriters who had written songs about Elliott. Perhaps a quote from several of them, and then several from Elliott.

[fake concerns]

Originally posted by ParentheticalThought
Perhaps a quote from several of them, and then several from Elliott.

Would there be enough room for all of this? Then again, if we put them along the sides, too... I love both of those George quotes. I especially like the quote from "Isn't it a Pity?" Elliott did a great cover of that song (don't know why I had to state the obvious there, ha). I think it might be a good one to use.

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by MollyR
Would there be enough room for all of this?

I don't know. I've never seen the wall. It depends on how big the wall is and how small the writing can be. :)

[Ella Megalast]

i also looked through the lyrics and just couldn't find anything that was a good "sound bite" (for the lack of a better word) that encompasses the *everything* we love about him (since many songs are a lil' heartbreaking and/or "third party" relay). his lyrics are so wonderful and there are lots of snippets that we could use but, as i said initially, i was just thinking it should be something sweet and understated that says something about elliott as a person. perhaps PT's suggestion of "I'm never gonna know you now, but I'm gonna love you anyhow" would be the best because it operates on different levels (as a lyric, a strong emotive feeling of elliott's, and for the folks who didn't get to know elliott because of his relative obscurity).

i wouldn't think having multiple lyrics would be as effective. you want something quick and easy to read and something that people would remember. i think, too, if we had it in cursive script "handwriting" that it would look good with the curvilinear design. and again, with his name and life dates would make it a real memorial.

question is, will the group like it? his family like it? stephon like it? where would the lyric and info go? within a strip of the design or at an upper edge of the wall so it is easily seen from far away and out of reach from street "taggers"? we need other people to weigh in, me thinks!

xo

[ParentheticalThought]

This project needs a project manager.

[fake concerns]

Originally posted by ParentheticalThought
This project needs a project manager.

Yes it does. It'd probably have to be someone in LA... but maybe not.

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by MollyR
Yes it does. It'd probably have to be someone in LA... but maybe not.

It would be a whole lot easier if they were in LA - or at least had ready access to LA. There is a lot of project management that can be done long-distance, but eventually you have to go to where the project is. Co-project managers could work well, as long as they made a good team and one of them was in or near LA.

[mary anne's a bitch]

the first lyric that came into my mind was

all i want now is happiness for you and me.

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by stringgle
the first lyric that came into my mind was

all i want now is happiness for you and me.

Oh yeah, forgot about that one! I think, though, that there would need to be more of the lyric because if you didn't know that it was part of an Elliott lyric you might think it was just a statement from fans or whatever since its a bit fragmentary and it doesn't rhyme.

What I used to be will pass away and then you'll see
That all I want now is happiness for you and me.

I think that could be an excellent choice. That really does capture the push/pull that was Elliott.

[fake concerns]

[i]Originally posted by
I think that could be an excellent choice. That really does capture the push/pull that was Elliott. [/B]

I agree with you. That'd be a good one to put on the wall.

[SingMeToSleep]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ParentheticalThought

What I used to be will pass away and then you'll see
That all I want now is happiness for you and me.

Though I live in a different hemisphere, I plan to visit the wall to pay my respects one day. In the meantime I'd like to thank all you generous souls who are getting involved in the restoration and maintenance of the wall. It's really important to have a focal point for people to express themselves emotionally.

The George Harrison quote works well, but I kind of think for Elliott's memorial his own words would have more resonance. I think the couplet above from Happiness is pretty much perfect. I like the XO line too, encapsulates how most of us who never knew him feel, but my money's on the Happiness one. Unless I can come up with better.
*sits down to think ...*:rolleyes:

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by stringgle
that sounds perfect! :heart:

Great!

Now what do we do????

[krissy_xo]

Wow, I just saw this thread. Everybody has so many great ideas. I love the idea of outlining the wall with one of Elliott's lyrics,and I think this one would be a wonderful choice.
Originally posted by ParentheticalThought
What I used to be will pass away and then you'll see
That all I want now is happiness for you and me.
I think that could be an excellent choice. That really does capture the push/pull that was
Elliott.

[Ella Megalast]

This thread has a couple of images with a whole different angle/perspective than I have ever seen of the wall (oblique shots). Check out the images courtesy of Rhythmic Quietude:

http://www.blamonet.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68832&highlight=solutions+wall

[SingMeToSleep]

Originally posted by Ella Megalast
This thread has a couple of images with a whole different angle/perspective than I have ever seen of the wall (oblique shots). Check out the images courtesy of Rhythmic Quietude:

http://www.blamonet.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68832&highlight=solutions+wall


Hey M, I just checked out RQ's shots of the wall and it gave me an idea. If the wall does need to be substantially painted over and people's messages would be lost (which would be a great shame), what if we encourage anyone with an artistic bent to go and photograph the best messages, get in really tight so they're readable. That way they will be preserved.

It'd be cool to have an exhibition of all the shots too. Anyone local up for it? I would but I'm about as far away as you can get.

[fake concerns]

Originally posted by SingMeToSleep
If the wall does need to be substantially painted over and people's messages would be lost (which would be a great shame), what if we encourage anyone with an artistic bent to go and photograph the best messages, get in really tight so they're readable. That way they will be preserved.

That's a great idea. I love the thought of preserving the messages. That way they'd never truly be lost. Sadly, I don't live in LA. Hopefully there's someone there who can do it, because I think it's a great idea.

[ParentheticalThought]

So it looks like a relatively small wall with room at the top left, almost top right, and a bit at bottom right for us/someone to put the lyrics. There is also space at the middle of the swirl but not sure how Stephon would feel about that or where he'd want to put his statue.

It would be nice to have photos of the messages. There was a lovely book done of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington of all the notes and things that people had left there over the years. Kind of reminds me of that, same kind of effort.

[SingMeToSleep]

Originally posted by ParentheticalThought

It would be nice to have photos of the messages. There was a lovely book done of the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington of all the notes and things that people had left there over the years. Kind of reminds me of that, same kind of effort. [/B]



Hey, FIGURE 8 - The Wall, The Exhibition, The Book. That'd be so cool. I hope some like-minded people get behind it. It would be a wonderful way for those of us who are far away to feel closer. All those heartfelt messages would make a fittingly personal memorial to Elliott.

[fake concerns]

I'm imagining the book right now... it's making me smile. Oh, that would be awesome. I say we get right on it! :D

[Anjy]

Wow, what a great thread. I'll be glad to help out anyway I can as well. Like Em...being in England might not let me help physically, but I'll help any other way I'm able. :heart:

[candylion]

i have some wonderful shots of the wall that were taken in december 03 and then some that were taken spring 04... someone wrote a message for me and then another person placed a gerber daisy for me there... :heart: they sent me pictures... and i'd be happy to scan the photos and to be a part of a book... that would be so beautiful! :heart:

[Ella Megalast]

Originally posted by SingMeToSleep
Hey M, I just checked out RQ's shots of the wall and it gave me an idea. If the wall does need to be substantially painted over and people's messages would be lost (which would be a great shame), what if we encourage anyone with an artistic bent to go and photograph the best messages, get in really tight so they're readable. That way they will be preserved.

It'd be cool to have an exhibition of all the shots too. Anyone local up for it? I would but I'm about as far away as you can get. 'tis a brilliant idea M! i think, too, it would be great if someone documented the "restoration" project in images to include.

after looking at that thread, i was amazed at how short and odd-sized that section of wall looks sandwiched between the brick borders. so, question is...if lyrics and Elliott's name and life dates are included, how can this be done without disturbing the integrity of the original design? again, we need feedback and a site manager!

[fake concerns]

Originally posted by Ella Megalast
so, question is...if lyrics and Elliott's name and life dates are included, how can this be done without disturbing the integrity of the original design?

This is a very good question, indeed. There's barely any space between the design and the brick. It would be nice to keep the original design intact... The first thing I thought of was that the bricks be painted white but that'd be... odd. So i don't know. We need more feedback. And yes, we do need a project manager. I'm sure it'd be best if they were in LA...

[llaurens]

A book of the pictures, great idea! :D I suppose there are already enough pictures of the wall to make a compilation/exhibit.
If people want to send money/ideas, I suppose I could post my address as Ashley proposed earlier, but I am not home right now, and I am not sure about posting my personal address on the internet :eek:

But, as I live in LA, and very close to the wall, feel free to pm/email me if you want to contribute. I'll talk with other LA fans and with Stephon when I'm home and we see what can be done!

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by llaurens
I am sure about posting my personal address on the internet :eek:


Understandable. Rent a P.O. box at the post office. I think they're pretty cheap.

Great that you're willing to do this!

[Ella Megalast]

check yer pm's llaurens

[edit...bumpity bump]

[llaurens]

What would you think about something like that for the memorial wall? the wall would be restored to its original state with Elliott's black silhouette... just like he appears on the cover of figure 8.
Everyone would be aware that it is a permanent memorial :)
I don't know, what do you think?

[Wheels]

Originally posted by llaurens
What would you think about something like that for the memorial wall? the wall would be restored to its original state with Elliott's black silhouette... just like he appears on the cover of figure 8.
Everyone would be aware that it is a permanent memorial :)
I don't know, what do you think?

I think this is a great idea.

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by pinkdot
What would you think about something like that for the memorial wall? the wall would be restored to its original state with Elliott's black silhouette... just like he appears on the cover of figure 8.
Everyone would be aware that it is a permanent memorial :)
I don't know, what do you think?

I do like that. but I forget, can you see his feet at the bottom? Does his silhouette go all the way down to the sidewalk? It would look weird if it didn't.

[anneofthekrisspecial]

hey i want to be a part of this...i'm an art major , so i know some tricks for getting straight lines and all.


please include me...i live in the la area and would love to participate.


the graffiti, by the way, is elliott related, for the most part...if you read it close.



some of it is not...


i vote for restoring it to it's former shape, i'm guessing that's what everyone else was thinking also.


please include me on this!!!!!

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by anneofthekrisspecial
hey i want to be a part of this...i'm an art major , so i know some tricks for getting straight lines and all.


please include me...i live in the la area and would love to participate.


the graffiti, by the way, is elliott related, for the most part...if you read it close.



some of it is not...


i vote for restoring it to it's former shape, i'm guessing that's what everyone else was thinking also.


please include me on this!!!!!

I wish I knew how to include you!

I'd like to participate, myself, even from a distance.

Does anybody have an update on what's going on?

[More Cowbell]

so what's the plan? I'd like to help, too. Is the whole wall gonna be painted over (including the messages) for this new tribute image? Sorry I haven't read through the whole thread, but maybe we could get someone to phtograph sections of the entire wall in its current state so we wouldn't lose all the memories (maybe use one of those rasturbator thingies to reconstruct it with photographs somewhere else.) I could help photograph.

[llaurens]

you're right, we need to draw his legs and feet. They are not on the picture of the figure 8 cover, but I suppose we could find a way to draw them by using another similar picture.



Originally posted by ParentheticalThought
I do like that. but I forget, can you see his feet at the bottom? Does his silhouette go all the way down to the sidewalk? It would look weird if it didn't.

[llaurens]

Originally posted by anneofthekrisspecial
hey i want to be a part of this...i'm an art major , so i know some tricks for getting straight lines and all.


please include me...i live in the la area and would love to participate.


the graffiti, by the way, is elliott related, for the most part...if you read it close.



some of it is not...


i vote for restoring it to it's former shape, i'm guessing that's what everyone else was thinking also.


please include me on this!!!!!

Hi Anne :)
No problem, any help is welcome! I will contact you as soon as I'm back in LA. I don't know exactly what we'll be the final project beside restoring the wall to its original shape.
What do you think about drawing Elliott's silhouette?

[llaurens]

Absolutely, if we restore the wall it would be nice to have pictures of its current state. Do you live in LA? you are welcome to help take pictures of the wall (I want to take some pictures but I'm not a professional photographer, and I just have a small camera).

Anyway, nothing will be done to the wall before the agreement of the owners and the fans!



Originally posted by More Cowbell
so what's the plan? I'd like to help, too. Is the whole wall gonna be painted over (including the messages) for this new tribute image? Sorry I haven't read through the whole thread, but maybe we could get someone to phtograph sections of the entire wall in its current state so we wouldn't lose all the memories (maybe use one of those rasturbator thingies to reconstruct it with photographs somewhere else.) I could help photograph.

[llaurens]

If you want to see what it would look like with the legs, in front of the wall....
we worked a little bit with photoshop :)

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by pinkdot
If you want to see what it would look like with the legs, in front of the wall....
we worked a little bit with photoshop :)

That's great - especially if the painting of his feet could bleed a bit onto the sidewalk. It looks like the black stripes to the left of his body do that too (?)

Is there room to put his dates in the black stripe under "Smith"?

[fake concerns]

Originally posted by ParentheticalThought
That's great - especially if the painting of his feet could bleed a bit onto the sidewalk. It looks like the black stripes to the left of his body do that too (?)

Is there room to put his dates in the black stripe under "Smith"?

I love the idea, and you did a great job with the photoshopping, pinkdot! PT, I think it'd be nice if it bled onto the sidewalk, as well. If we can't fit the dates onto the little black stripe below where his name would go, perhaps we can put it on one of the stripes to the right of his body? The big black one, perhaps? Just a thought.

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by MollyR
I love the idea, and you did a great job with the photoshopping, pinkdot! PT, I think it'd be nice if it bled onto the sidewalk, as well. If we can't fit the dates onto the little black stripe below where his name would go, perhaps we can put it on one of the stripes to the right of his body? The big black one, perhaps? Just a thought.

I think putting his dates to the right of him would create an odd kind of frame around one part of his body. If the dates don't fit on that thin black stripe under Smith, they might look good on the next black stripe down (since they are a different topic than his name it would be ok to have them slightly separated) or...they could go on the thick black stripe on the other side of his body at thigh level (the second one from the bottom). It's low enough that it would extend the frame around his body and not look so tight or odd. I don't like that as much but at least it would definitely fit.

Is there room in the white space at the top right corner of the wall to fit the quote from Happiness that we were talking about a while ago? If so, we could do it in the same font as his name and dates and rim it with another black wavy line, so it looks like part of the original design. I don't have photoshop or I would try it.

These are just my two cents, obviously. Anybody else? I like the direction we're going in.

[Ella Megalast]

Originally posted by pinkdot
If you want to see what it would look like with the legs, in front of the wall....
we worked a little bit with photoshop :) that looks really great.

i think most of us agree that the placement of the words shouldn't intefere too much with the design but should be prominent and legible. i like the idea of including it within a stripe but i think the space restraints will keep the text a bit small. how about prominently on the top left corner of the wall overlaying the design somewhat but making it easy to read from a distance?

[Ella Megalast]

forgot to say, where the text overlaps a band of color, then the text could change to white -- so the text is black with the exception of the parts that land on a colored stripe. does that make sense?

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by Ella Megalast
that looks really great.

i think most of us agree that the placement of the words shouldn't intefere too much with the design but should be prominent and legible. i like the idea of including it within a stripe but i think the space restraints will keep the text a bit small. how about prominently on the top left corner of the wall overlaying the design somewhat but making it easy to read from a distance?

I just went back and looked at some of the more complete pictures of the wall and I agree with you that the upper left hand corner is probably the best place for a lyric quote. There's a chunk of white space there and unlike the lower corners near the sidewalk it won't get bumped, chipped etc. I think the only things that should be written in the stripes are his name (which is already there) and his dates. But... I don't have a sense of scale with that white space in the upper left corner, and if the quote doesn't fit and does bleed into the stripes, I agree with you, it should change into white where it crosses a stripe.

[ParentheticalThought]

Well, his name isn't "already there" in real life, just on the album cover, but you know what I mean.

[armada]

hi everyone,

i didn't read this whole thread, but i saw the last idea of painting elliott's silhouette onto the wall, and i think that's beautiful. can we put 1969-2003 somewhere as well? or rip?


also, i wanted to let you all know that i'm moving to northern california at the end of this month and, although i'm not going to have a lot of free time on my hands, if there is a weekend when you're all out there doing this i will make a serious effort to come down and help out.

it would be a nice way to meet a bunch of you and carry out an elliott remembrance act that would make me feel good. :heart:

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by armada
hi everyone,

i didn't read this whole thread, but i saw the last idea of painting elliott's silhouette onto the wall, and i think that's beautiful. can we put 1969-2003 somewhere as well? or rip?


also, i wanted to let you all know that i'm moving to northern california at the end of this month and, although i'm not going to have a lot of free time on my hands, if there is a weekend when you're all out there doing this i will make a serious effort to come down and help out.

it would be a nice way to meet a bunch of you and carry out an elliott remembrance act that would make me feel good. :heart:

Yes, we're talking about putting his name on the stripes as they appear on Figure 8 and putting his dates on a stripe underneath that.

Or at least that idea hasn't been shouted down yet.

Glad to hear of another addyer who could be available to help. it's frustrating to be on the east coast.

[SingMeToSleep]

The silhouette reaching the pavement sounds great and I agree that the lyric should be higher up out of harm's way. If I wasn't stuck in another hemisphere I'd be there with my paintbrush and ladder too.

Any word on whether someone can get over and take some close-up shots so the messages aren't lost? That's a valuable part of the history of the wall and I think it should be preserved if possible.

[space girl lost]

a newer version of this would be nice, yes.

http://www.hallbeck.com/elliott/

[anneofthekrisspecial]

hey guys...good news.

i went to the wall on the 6th and worked up enough gusto to go in and talk to stephon, the owner of sound solutions. he seemed to really love elliott and wanted to keep his memory alive. he is the artist behind the wall, so i think he knows how to retrace his design accurately.

he told me that he doesn't have a problem with it, but that in the future he plans to repaint, well, restore the wall to the way that it looked when elliott loved it. he has the paint and everything. before he does this, he told me that there will be a mass-messaging, that way everyone can have their last comment. he put it in a beautiful way, too. he said that all of the messages, although they won't be seen, will always be there. it's kinda like how elliott is to us now. he also went on to generously tell me that he and elliott would share knowledge about electronics and how elliott became his own repair guy and didn't need his help anymore :) it was a really cute story. so elliott. to memorialize this memory he has and to show his respect for elliott, he wants to make a life-sized sculpture of him using crushed up circuit boards.


i think that this is a great idea. i also think that it is a fitting memorial to the well-rounded, endless genius and talent that elliott was.

he plans on doing this in a year or so, so we really have nothing to worry about. also, i may be too much of a fan of my dirty LA, but i believe that the wall doesn't look THAT bad. the graffiti, like i said, is spray painted messages. the offensive stuff is monitored and covered by stephon. there used to be some sad stuff up there. expressions of hate and anger towards elliott. i always never liked those sentiments.


honestly, i think that there is nothing to worry about. i gave him my contact info, so when he plans on going through with it, i think he'll call me. then i'll contact charlie and have him put it on the news page or something.



i think that we're all just running around with arrows in our hats. ;)


everything's gonna be okay

[fake concerns]

So he does want to do the sculpture? OK. The silhouette/name/dates on the wall might be easier, but if he does go through with the sculpture it'd be a very fitting tribute. Either way it'll work out fine. I still love his ideas. :)

[anneofthekrisspecial]

he said that he might put some lyrics up or something like that.



i like that quote by the way.



elliott is my hero.

[ParentheticalThought]

Just to be disgustingly practical once again (because I'm that kind of gal) -

if his sculpture is going to stick out from the wall, or expecially if it's going to stand on the sidewalk, he may need a permit. He may even need a zoning variance if the building's property line ends where the building hits the sidewalk.

Worth being sure before the city stops him, anyway.

[SingMeToSleep]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ParentheticalThought
[B]Just to be disgustingly practical once again (because I'm that kind of gal) -
if his sculpture is going to stick out from the wall, or expecially if it's going to stand on the sidewalk, he may need a permit. He may even need a zoning variance if the building's property line ends where the building hits the sidewalk.



A lovely idea, and it IS that guy's shop afterall. But I'm wondering if something standing out like that might be quite an obvious target for vandalism ...?

I'm still really keen on the quote from Happiness in his handwriting and the silhouette. My 2 cents.
:cool:

[anneofthekrisspecial]

my only request is that the "swoosh" stays. that would be tragic if it left. as long as the swoosh stays and we can go there and remember him, i'm okay with any image or writing or whatever.


i'm sure a lot of us feel this way.

[llaurens]

oh I did the exact same thing today afternoon, because I am back in LA since yesterday night! i talked to Stephon too and he told me the exact same thing, I showed him the project, but he really wants to do the sculpture thing, not the silhouette and the name, dates on the wall. Afterall, that's his propriety and his design! He even said he may put an mp3 player inside the sculpture so people would be able to listen to Elliott's music.
It seems like a long project!
He does not want money for the paint (I asked him), but it would be nice to get him some money to fix the uneven sidewalk, because he said the city will not do it.


Originally posted by ParentheticalThought
Just to be disgustingly practical once again (because I'm that kind of gal) -

if his sculpture is going to stick out from the wall, or expecially if it's going to stand on the sidewalk, he may need a permit. He may even need a zoning variance if the building's property line ends where the building hits the sidewalk.

Worth being sure before the city stops him, anyway.


I did not think about that, it would be good to talk to him about that next time.

I gave him my contact info too, there are three of us on the list now! ;)

[space girl lost]

Originally posted by pinkdot
He even said he may put an mp3 player inside the sculpture so people would be able to listen to Elliott's music.

ambitious! i like it!! :)

i think if it were made and i ever made it back to LA, i'd tie a big red balloon to the sculpture's "hand". :D

[Ella Megalast]

Originally posted by pinkdot
...I showed him the project, but he really wants to do the sculpture thing, not the silhouette and the name, dates on the wall. Afterall, that's his propriety and his design!
I have to admit that I'm a bit sad about that...no, I'm really sad about that! I know it's Stephon's property but my understanding of Elliott is that he was very low-key and humble. Somehow, I think a musical sculpture may be a lil' bit much. Plus it really is taking away from the integrity of the iniital design.

It will be interesting to see how it turns out. I guess I just want to shout from the rooftops about how much I love Elliott and I thought the text idea was a good one because it informed people.

[llaurens]

Originally posted by Ella Megalast
I have to admit that I'm a bit sad about that...no, I'm really sad about that! I know it's Stephon's property but my understanding of Elliott is that he was very low-key and humble. Somehow, I think a musical sculpture may be a lil' bit much. Plus it really is taking away from the integrity of the iniital design.

It will be interesting to see how it turns out. I guess I just want to shout from the rooftops about how much I love Elliott and I thought the text idea was a good one because it informed people.

I know! and I must admit I have a hard time to imagine what a 5'7" (Elliott's height) sculpture made of crushed electronic parts will look like... It is a good idea but I don't know how realistic it is; it is not a really bad neighborhood but won't people be tempted to steal the mp3 player? or ruin the statue?

Stephon said it is gonna take a long time, at least 8 months, to complete the project. He is a very nice and generous person and wants the fans to be happy when they come to the memorial wall :)

[Ella Megalast]

Originally posted by pinkdot
I know! and I must admit I have a hard time to imagine what a 5'7" (Elliott's height) sculpture made of crushed electronic parts will look like... It is a good idea but I don't know how realistic it is; it is not a really bad neighborhood but won't people be tempted to steal the mp3 player? or ruin the statue?

Stephon said it is gonna take a long time, at least 8 months, to complete the project. He is a very nice and generous person and wants the fans to be happy when they come to the memorial wall :) it is wonderful that he is so enthusiastic about it, but i really liked your mock-up design...was everything i thought it should be.

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by Ella Megalast
I have to admit that I'm a bit sad about that...no, I'm really sad about that! I know it's Stephon's property but my understanding of Elliott is that he was very low-key and humble. Somehow, I think a musical sculpture may be a lil' bit much. Plus it really is taking away from the integrity of the iniital design.

It will be interesting to see how it turns out. I guess I just want to shout from the rooftops about how much I love Elliott and I thought the text idea was a good one because it informed people.

I didn't want to say anything under the circumstances but I feel exactly the same way. I thought we had an effective, affordable, low-key way of celebrating a humble, low-key guy in a style that people would understand. People understand murals. They read them. Even if no one steals the elliott statue, you know what they'll do? - they'll either try to take it apart or try to break it in order to see how it's made and how much it can take. I know several people who work at interactive museums and that's what happens to all of their exhibits. People don't always see the subject of the exhibit - they get caught up in the fact that it's a machine and they want to challenge it.

I'm sorry to rant at Stephon's idea because it comes from his heart, and it's in a format that HE understands as the technophile that he is (which is, of course, why he wants to do it his way), but I think it's going to be pretty tough going all the way.

[SingMeToSleep]

:-o Well that's three of us a little disappointed at the direction it's going in. I agree with you both. I really wonder how Elliott himself would've felt about such an in-your-face idea (the guy was self-effacing to the point of destruction). I like the silhouette idea cos it was more subtle - like an imprint he's left on our lives. Instantly recogniseable to fans, but not over the top.

Also there are plenty of kids out there who just love trashing stuff for the hell of it and I think it'd make a very obvious target.

When I try and picture it ... I don't know, it seems wrong somehow. Not wanting to disrespect Stephon's vision of course, but ... *shrugs*

[SingMeToSleep]

PS:

I just realised why the idea feels wrong to me - the whole crushed up electronics and metal thing sounds so cold and mechanical. To me Elliott was such a warm, human presence. Strikes the wrong note somehow ...

[fake concerns]

I like the wall design better, too. Not only would it make more sense in terms of vandalism, etc, but it'd also be faster and cost effective...

Originally posted by SingMeToSleep

I just realised why the idea feels wrong to me - the whole crushed up electronics and metal thing sounds so cold and mechanical. To me Elliott was such a warm, human presence. Strikes the wrong note somehow ...

I never thought of it this way, but it's a good way to look at it. I'd rather not repeat what people have already said. I agree with you all. I mean, surely Stephon wants our input? Perhaps next time someone meets up with him they voice our opinions for us? Maybe we can come to a compromise...

[space girl lost]

compromise ... paint the figure of him on the wall anyway as a shadow of the sculpture. when the sculpture is broken and stolen everything else is still there??

sorry. i'm being rather sarcastic and bitter today.


i hadn't thought of the mechanical cold feeling. but it's true. *sigh*

[fake concerns]

Originally posted by space girl lost
compromise ... paint the figure of him on the wall anyway as a shadow of the sculpture. when the sculpture is broken and stolen everything else is still there??


I don't know... :cry: I said that without really thinking about what it would mean...

:-o

[space girl lost]

i wasn't being mean. i hope you didn't take it that way! :-o

i didn't think, myself, about vandalism. for some dumb reason. and now that i think about it... it's possible. probable even. :(

i hate that i feel so attached to this project/undertaking. i've never seen it how it is now. how it was last year. how it was in november 2003. just photos. that's all. i'm so far away now. and i still have my doubts i'll ever see it.

[fake concerns]

Originally posted by space girl lost

i hate that i feel so attached to this project/undertaking. i've never seen it how it is now. how it was last year. how it was in november 2003. just photos. that's all. i'm so far away now. and i still have my doubts i'll ever see it.

I've never seen it either, only pictures. Hopefully one day... Atleast I'm able to help out with what the new design will look like.. sort of.

[Ella Megalast]

Originally posted by SingMeToSleep
PS:

I just realised why the idea feels wrong to me - the whole crushed up electronics and metal thing sounds so cold and mechanical. To me Elliott was such a warm, human presence. Strikes the wrong note somehow ... ditto the sentiment :(

[Ella Megalast]

so the question is now...do we feel this way inside this thread (sigh) or do we collectively voice our heartfelt opinions to the Stephon? perhaps we can have a vote on the board -- something to print out and take to Stephon so he understands how folks feel (although, some folks may like his idea so I may be way off the mark).

[fake concerns]

Originally posted by Ella Megalast
perhaps we can have a vote on the board -- something to print out and take to Stephon so he understands how folks feel (although, some folks may like his idea so I may be way off the mark).

Yeah, we need to have a poll, because I'm sure there are quite a few people who don't come to this forum much and we need to get their opinions. :-o

EDIT: Someone posted this in the FAQ section of the site for our consideration and asked that it be posted here, so here you go:

"I visit this site often and though I don't post, the blamo board keeps me abreast of things. I think the memorial is a wonderful idea, but the Happiness quote personally strikes me as a little cryptic. Since the wall is not only in memory of Elliott but also a tribute by the fans, the XO quote (I'm never...anyhow) seems more appropriate; it would also be clearer to those unfamiliar with his work (especially in conjunction with the silhouette) that he is no longer with us. The wall should send the message that Elliott's music survives him. Hopefully if this project comes to fruition, the wall will endure long enough for many fans who will have only had the opportunity to connect with his work posthumously; hence as the years pass that quote would be more meaningful. Maybe I'm reading too much desperation into Happiness or I see the "what I used to be..." as bad omen incongruous the memorial's goal, but either way I think the XO line is better fit. Any thoughts? Thanks for maintaining this site and I wish everyone luck with getting the project underway."

[SingMeToSleep]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MollyR
[B]
"I visit this site often and though I don't post, the blamo board keeps me abreast of things. I think the memorial is a wonderful idea, but the Happiness quote personally strikes me as a little cryptic. Maybe I'm reading too much desperation into Happiness or I see the "what I used to be..." as bad omen incongruous the memorial's goal.



:rolleyes: Hmm. Yes I'd read this in the Questions section too and I don't know I totally agree. I don't find the Happiness quote particularly cryptic or a bad omen incongruous to the memorial's goal. I find those lines quite uplifting. But I do agree that either that one or the line from XO would be great.

I think we definitely need a poll - should we start a new thread and get people to vote?

[fake concerns]

Originally posted by SingMeToSleep

I think we definitely need a poll - should we start a new thread and get people to vote?

Yes, I think we should. :)

[SingMeToSleep]

Good. Okay. Who's gonna do it? Hey M - maybe this should be yours? Cos you were onto it earlier and have lots of worthwile stuff to say ...

btw, I love your Man Ray atavar. Violin of Ingres. I used to have pillows with that image screenprinted, they were so beautiful.:)

[ParentheticalThought]

well, I'm glad someone is going to do a poll. I'd been thinking we'd gotten to that point. And I wouldn't want it to be just the few of us that keep posting here to be the only voices when a decision or argument is made.

Whatever the results (unless they're wholely on Stephon's side) we're going to have to tread lightly. Stephon has said he wants to hear from the fans, but he also loves his own idea and it is his wall. Whoever ultimately visits him with the results is going to have to be (and should be out of respect) a bit of a diplomat.

[SingMeToSleep]

Originally posted by ParentheticalThought
Whoever ultimately visits him with the results is going to have to be (and should be out of respect) a bit of a diplomat.



Of course. Good point. It'll be interesting to see what everyone else thinks, then we can decide how to couch it from there.

PT, do you want to launch it? If no-one else wants to I'll start the thread, but I'm something of a latecomer so it's not necessarily my place to ...:rolleyes:

[ParentheticalThought]

Originally posted by SingMeToSleep


PT, do you want to launch it? If no-one else wants to I'll start the thread, but I'm something of a latecomer so it's not necessarily my place to ...:rolleyes:

:hide:

I've never started a thread before. I've been waiting to see how long I could go.




If Ella or anyone would like to start this poll, feel free.

Otherwise, yeah, I guess I could.

[SingMeToSleep]

Aw, don't be shy PT, it's not hard. But I don't mind kick-starting it, just a bit of explaining to do first off.:)

[sombre winds]

I'm not clear on what will be on the wall when the sculpture is built. I hope the original design will stay or be repainted. Without that it's not going to be Elliott's wall.

I know this isn't her decision but I wonder if any's gotten an opinion from Ashley about the sculpture. The sculpture seems wrong to me but she knew him and my have a different impression.

[More Cowbell]

I say the sculpture should be a life-size statue. Making it out of "junk parts" would make it pretty much un-vandalizable. "I'm a junkyard full of false starts" comes to mind. Now that I think of it he sang a lot about junk, even called himself by that word a few times in lyrics. I'm not suggesting, btw, that those lyrics be added to the wall. It should be made of concrete and parts and placed in front of the wall exactly where Elliott stood. See the Elliott Smith board also to see more on why I think the staue's a good idea.

I say put both quotes.

[trucker's atlas]

well i've been avoiding reading this thread because as much as i've wanted to, reading stuff like this is just one more reminder that elliott's really gone. :(

and yes, i do realize that i spend quite a bit of time with my head in the sand.

if i may chip in my two cents' worth (even though i feel like it might not be my place to do so because i'm not only most likely unable to do much to help with the physical work of repairing/restoring/changing the wall, i don't even know when i'll finally be able to come down there for a visit even! but still, i feel like i should say it...)

as i was reading through this thread, i really took to the idea that was photoshop mock-upped. i like the simplicity of the idea, especially when (as you all have already stated) it was very visually representative of the elliott we
"know" - the elliot who portrayed himself as just another simple guy... i was really digging on the "i'm never gonna know you now..." bit, too. and i didn't/don't see any reason why the dates wouldn't fit into the small black stripe. i think elliott would've approved of that (but then again, when it comes down to it, what do i really know) because it'd be understated and small but still there... you all can see what i'm getting at. i think that the majority of "us" ("us" being fans who are somewhat in the know about what elliott liked) could "get" the meaning behind multiple quotes or quotes from artists that elliott admired. but deep down i really feel that a single quote of elliott's own would be more simple, understated, yet striking and get the point across.

i'm less of a fan of the statue idea. while stephon may have known that side of elliott, i think the silhouette idea would be a) understood and "felt" by a wider audience, b) simpler and easier to pull off, c) more of what elliott was like and stood for, to more of his fans. fans who were already fans, fans who are yet to come.

yet it is stephon's shop and that more than anything should be taken into consideration. i just feel like more fans could identify with something simpler and the silhouette might speak more loudly to more people...

i'm not picking my words quite right tonight but if i didn't post this now i might not ever post it at all.

that's just my opinion. i'll still be happy to help in whatever way i can, whether i personally 100% approve of the ideas or not!

and on that note... it doesn't sound like anything of this nature would be needed, but if so... i work at a shop where we make things and one thing we broker is cast bronze. like when you see cast bronze plaques on walls, in memorials, etc. i wouldn't be able to make something like that myself but if something along those lines were to be part of the design i could get it at cost. not what my company would charge for it but what the actual manufacturer would charge to make the piece. i know a lot of times people shy away from cast bronze pieces because even a small piece can cost a couple/few hundred bucks (retail price, though i could get it much much cheaper.) it's durable and can stand up to the weather outdoors and is hard to steal, deface or destroy. i'd be happy to work with something along those lines if it does come about that something like that is needed or desired.

if there's anything else you can think of that i can do, please let me know... :heart:

[SingMeToSleep]

Originally posted by sombre winds
I know this isn't her decision but I wonder if any's gotten an opinion from Ashley about the sculpture. The sculpture seems wrong to me but she knew him and my have a different impression.





I think consulting Ashley would be a really worthwhile thing to do. As you say, she's family and I'm sure she'd have an opinion on whether or not the statue seems right.:) Maybe Charlie could get in touch.

[llaurens]

Originally posted by sombre winds
I'm not clear on what will be on the wall when the sculpture is built. I hope the original design will stay or be repainted. Without that it's not going to be Elliott's wall.

I know this isn't her decision but I wonder if any's gotten an opinion from Ashley about the sculpture. The sculpture seems wrong to me but she knew him and my have a different impression.

When I spoke to Stephon, he told me he wanted the original design to be restored, with nothing written on it.
I agree, it would be interesting to know what Ashley thinks about the project.

[Ella Megalast]

Originally posted by pinkdot
When I spoke to Stephon, he told me he wanted the original design to be restored, with nothing written on it.
I agree, it would be interesting to know what Ashley thinks about the project. Does that mean no words, meaning no name/life dates/lyric? Or does he mean no fans leaving a note?

[llaurens]

Originally posted by Ella Megalast
Does that mean no words, meaning no name/life dates/lyric? Or does he mean no fans leaving a note?
From what he told me, that means no name, date,... I don't know if he could change his opinion, but he seemed to have made his mind up about the project.

[Ella Megalast]

Originally posted by pinkdot
From what he told me, that means no name, date,... I don't know if he could change his opinion, but he seemed to have made his mind up about the project. awww, sigh. with that in mind, i would like to see it restored as it was (sans animatronic sculpture), heh. still, glad Stephon's heart is in the right place!

[Brilliant Sun]

Does anyone have any new info on restorations to the wall involving Stephon's ideas? Would love to see some new pictures.

Thank you.:heart:

[llaurens]

sorry, no new infos on the future restoration. It does not seem that Stephon is willing to begin anything anytime soon? this week, there will be even more writings on the wall with the anniversary of Elliott's death, even if the wall is crowded and kind of messy.
I think someone (tre) has posted new pictures of last night.
I took these pictures today:

[llaurens]

.

[llaurens]

I hate whoever wrote "america most wanted #1,..."
:mad:

[llaurens]

:(

[Brilliant Sun]

Thank you pinkdot for posting those, it's a very beautiful thing for those of us who can't be there.
So nice of you to share.

[llaurens]

oh you're very welcome! :)

I just wish I could post them in a bigger format, I don't know how to do it!
I have to reduce them to 102 Kb and they always come up quite small :rolleyes:

[space girl lost]

how big is the original format? perhaps i can help some...?

[fake concerns]

I might can help aswell.

[BunnyApple]

Originally posted by pinkdot

I took these pictures today:

Thanks for sharing your photos pinkdot :bounce: ... it's appreciated :yes:

[llaurens]

the original pictures are 640 x 480 pixels, and around 150 kb
thanks!

[llaurens]

I also can do this:
[img=http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/5415/dsc001665av.th.jpg] (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc001665av.jpg)

[llaurens]

[img=http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/9180/dsc001678qw.th.jpg] (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc001678qw.jpg)

[llaurens]

[img=http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/1817/dsc001684cp.th.jpg] (http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc001684cp.jpg)

[llaurens]

[img=http://img483.imageshack.us/img483/9347/dsc001691eb.th.jpg] (http://img483.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc001691eb.jpg)

[space girl lost]

wall #1

[space girl lost]

wall #2

[space girl lost]

wall #3

[space girl lost]

wall #4

[space girl lost]

did that help any?

[llaurens]

Great :D :yes:

[llaurens]

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/7822/wall065ma.th.jpg (http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wall065ma.jpg)

don't ask me why people do things like that, it's probably gang related, but that sucks!
there is a huge white tag on the wall, it is really time to repaint it!

[llaurens]

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/4158/wall2064ao.th.jpg (http://img265.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wall2064ao.jpg)

:(

[Kitty Fantastico]

wow.:(
people can be horrible.

[Needs Wasabi]

I hate some people. :(

[fake concerns]

i'd rather have the wall repainted than covered up by useless grafitti. that's terrible. has anyone heard anything from stephon (or ashley, maybe?) about when painting is taking place?

[BunnyApple]

http://img250.imageshack.us/img250/7822/wall065ma.th.jpg (http://img250.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wall065ma.jpg)

don't ask me why people do things like that, it's probably gang related, but that sucks!


:mad:/:(

[space girl lost]

someone over in the elliott lj community said that when she talked to stephon a couple weeks ago, he had no intention of repainting. if that is true ... i certainly hope he changed his mind.

i'm completely over the idea of messages being covered. they will always be there for elliott to read. he knows all we have to say anyway. but i'd rather the wall be remembered for what it was that drew him to it than look trashy with a bunch of unrelated tagging.

[candylion]

i haven't been in this thread in a long time nor the memorial forum... seeing the grafitti on the wall really makes me sad... :(

[DDM]

I read through this thread last night and I'm so disappointed that people don't have the decency not to put graffitti all over a memorial site, and even more disappointed that someone whould tag the ENTIRE thing, which means it will most likely for sure needed to be repainted.

Also, this morning I was listening to figure 8 and I think I may know where stephon got the metal man idea... from the song Everything Means Nothing To Me

here's the quote.
an iron man still trying to
salute people from a time when he was everything he’s supposed to be

That iron man, would be elliott and he would still be saltuing (and thus cheering up) people just like he did when he was still with us.

At first, I wasn't so much for the statue idea, but after finding that connection it all made sense.

[heavymetalmouthagain]

man I tell yah it's horrible

[heavymetalmouthagain]

and no more flowers :(

[stee_doc]

repainting the wall would be weird.... i think just let the wall biodegrade in a compost of gang tags and soggy farewells. I really like the statue idea. EMNTM is a great song - beautiful imagery! ah...

[either.or.]

i realize that no one has talked on this for months, but i'm very concerned as to the wall's condition. is it going to be demolished? repainted? i'm going there this summer and it would be disappointing to get to LA from Chicago to see the wall gone.

[Joe Shmoe]

Hey everyone! Ashley here. I visited LA for the first time since I moved from there over two years ago just this past week, and I stopped by to see the wall. I was expecting a ton of graffiti. Actually, I was half-expecting not to even recognize it. I was pleasantly shocked to see that it's actually doing pretty well...

Whoever is taking care of the wall, thank you. There's very little graffiti on it right now, and while it's a little messy in spots, (it's impossible to cover up the graffiti without changing the original color or painting over a few people's messages, trust me, I know, I did it for a while when I lived there) I think it looks really great. I even found the message I wrote over three years ago still up.

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks to whoever is watching over the wall. It's a tricky thing to take care of, and there's all kinds of opinions on what is best, (totally repainting over everything, trying to preserve people's messages while cleaning up the graffiti, letting it go to the graffiti artists, etc,) but I think the choice that is being made now is a good one. Elliott doesn't have a grave marker, and there's really no other one public spot for people who want to to pay their respects to him. The wall means a lot to me and to my mom, who I took lots of pictures for. It feels good seeing how many people he touched, and read the messages they have to him.

So thank you once again.

Take care,
Ashley

[llaurens]

Hi Ashley :D

So good to hear from you here!

I think the owner, Stephon, is taking care of the wall, he has red, white and black paints inside the shop and paints over the graffiti when real bad ones appear. As you probably know, he had the idea to completely paint over everything once, but never did it. I think people still need this place, it has become a landmark of Silverlake. Although I have spoken to Stephon for a long time, I think he is probably aware of the importance of the wall.
I hope everything is well for you, take care,
Laurence

[fake concerns]

Hey Ashley! :D :heart: It's lovely to hear from you.
I'm glad to hear that the wall is in condition. I have a message up there (although I've never been to CA; A kind Addier wrote it out for me) and it's nice to know that someone, possibly Stephon as Laurence said, is taking the time to preserve the wall. It's such a great thing to have it at all and the fact that someone is going the extra mile to preserve it is just as great.

Anyway, I hope you and the rest of your family are doing well. Thanks for dropping in! :)

[candylion]

hi ashley... i just noticed this message from you... thanks for always sharing with us.
i hope you are doing well... and i hope to one day make it to the wall.. i still feel this need to visit there...

xo
candy

[tum]

hi ashley... i just noticed this message from you... thanks for always sharing with us.
i hope you are doing well... and i hope to one day make it to the wall.. i still feel this need to visit there...

xo
candy

wow i haven't been on the boards for quite a long time. coming back and seeing this thread was a bit of an emotional rollercoaster. happy to see the wall is still hanging on. i should be in los angeles on a semi-permanent basis a few months from now. hopefully it will still be around.

i think stephon deserves a fairly big round of applause for doing what he's doing.

[luanbai]

myspace.com/repaintthewall [/B]

[Jack Fate]

Yo. it's me, random stranger here.

just stopping by to say:

I drove by the Wall two days ago, and it's been painted fresh. No ELLIOTT or MOUSE writing on it whatsoever. A VIRGIN WALL, as if the memorial never took place.

Looks just like the "old school" Solutions wall from the 1990's.

I'm ready to hit it with my Elliott stencils, markers, wooden plaques....man, I got a garage full of stuff that could be stuck on that wall.

Speaking of which, I'm dying to know who removed my wheat-paste poster of Elliott from the wall months ago. I sincerely hope it was one of you guys, and not some city employee thinking it was garbage glued to a wall.

Feel free to get in touch w/ me if you're in the mood for some memorial update bombing:

www.myspace.com/eduardo73

xo,

E73

[jolisada]

It's Beautiful....the painters are still not done with it yet/the coating has not been put on yet so please don't write on it or it will get erased from the touch ups

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b275/Luanbai/2295944417_8719ceff6f.jpg

PHOTO CREDITS TO "Revolute" at http://www.flickr.com/photos/revolute/2295944417/

[mikey relty]

if there was a little plaque or something on there to make it official people could just not write on it anymore