USA = Fucked

[Roosevelt]

Sandra Day O'Connor resigned from the Supreme Court today. She was the major swing vote for the court, so what will happen from here on out will be anyone's guess, but Roe V. Wayde is in now in some serious jeopardy. Here is the artical from the BBC:

Sandra Day O'Connor, the first woman to serve on the US Supreme Court and a crucial centrist, is to retire.
Ms O'Connor, 75, has often cast the deciding vote on the nine-member court, leading some US commentators to call her the most powerful woman in America.
She is the first Supreme Court justice to retire since 1994, giving George W Bush his first chance to name a judge.
The former Arizona politician was nominated by Ronald Reagan to serve on the court and took up her seat in 1981.
President Bush was due to make a statement on Ms O'Connor's resignation from the White House shortly after 1000 (1500 GMT).
He was not immediately expected to announce his nomination for Ms O'Connor's replacement.
Centrist
Despite originally joining the justices as a conservative, Ms O'Connor became a centrist who regularly voted for both liberal and conservative measures.
Speculation has mounted that Mr Bush will nominate a conservative to the court in an effort to tilt the balance of opinion on the bench.
In a three-sentence letter of resignation to Mr Bush, Ms O'Connor described her 24-term tenure on the court as "a great privilege".
"This is to inform you of my decision to retire from my position as an associate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, effective upon the nomination and confirmation of my successor," she wrote.
"I will leave it with enormous respect for the integrity of the court and its role under our constitutional structure."
Ruth Bader Ginsburg is currently the only other woman sitting on the bench.

[Feeling Brackish]

The possibilities with this are frightening to me.

[Pele]

This'd probably get more replies in the politics board. That said, I'm not incredibly well-versed on the current status of Roe Wade but I doubt that it'll be overturned. Even if it is brought to court, the media frenzy would be ridiculous and I would hope that these supposed Supreme Justices would consider that such an overturn would cause so much more damage.

Aside from the morality (or lack thereof) of such a decision, what about the societal reaction? I wouldn't be surprised if the majority-deciding judges became victims of (attempted) assassination. Women all over the country would attempt their own abortions through physical or medical means, endagering their own lives. Ru-486 (the "abortion pill") would become a synthesized black-market item, bought and sold through the drug trade to desperate teenage girls and older women. The number of children in the foster and orphanage system would SKYROCKET. Millions of children would be brought into the world with no purpose other than to suffer without homes or families.

This is one of the very very few things that would cause me to consider moving out of the country.

[Hi There, Am Pam]

"Here's some good news, for people who love bad news"


It just keeps getting worse & worse.

[Leela]

Good GOD NO

[jczeroman]

The question is:

How did she vote on Medical Marijuana, Eminent Domain and P2P software? If she was pro any of the recent decisions on these matters, then I'm glad to see her go.

[Suede]

roosevelt = michael moore of blamo

[jas1n]

Originally posted by jczeroman
The question is:

How did she vote on Medical Marijuana, Eminent Domain and P2P software? If she was pro any of the recent decisions on these matters, then I'm glad to see her go.

yeah totally - if she didn't vote for me to be able to smoke bomb and download mp3z then she's no use to us.

[Depechekin]

Originally posted by he believes in swordfish
yeah totally - if she didn't vote for me to be able to smoke bomb and download mp3z then she's no use to us.

This doesn't suprise or upset me at all, I'm so used to mindblowing bad news re:USA that it just doesn't phase me anymore.

[jas1n]

Originally posted by Depechekin
This doesn't suprise or upset me at all, I'm so used to mindblowing bad news re:USA that it just doesn't phase me anymore.

not me, it still gets me down. :( do you think that this netphoria kid will take me for serious? :smug:

[i]

We have a program at work that pop-ups BBC News alerts throughout the day and one of them was this story. So, so sad. :(

[Depechekin]

Originally posted by he believes in swordfish
not me, it still gets me down. :( do you think that this netphoria kid will take me for serious? :smug:

It doesn't matter

[Hutch]

How ya doin'

What we are told, what we are shown, what we are taught is all lies--just USofA FICTIONASIA. Who agrees?

Hutch

[Hutch]

Why is there an ignore option in this place-pretty rude aient'it kinda like what youm people are doing to me in here right-if you want me to go cause i'm straight,married to a woman,and happy,thats pretty messed up!!! I tried to put this anpthe way the other day but my language was much more harsh and the powers here would not let me post.You are not afraid of honest strong language or ideas that don't jive up with your own are you? I asked if this was a gay forum and i was laughed at and shunned. Whats up with that????

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Originally posted by Hutch
Why is there an ignore option in this place-pretty rude aient'it kinda like what youm people are doing to me in here right-if you want me to go cause i'm straight,married to a woman,and happy,thats pretty messed up!!! I tried to put this anpthe way the other day but my language was much more harsh and the powers here would not let me post.You are not afraid of honest strong language or ideas that don't jive up with your own are you? I asked if this was a gay forum and i was laughed at and shunned. Whats up with that????
Wow. You really have issues.

[vordabois]

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
Wow. You really have issues.

:-p

So which will it be, Danny? The red pill or the blue pill?

[Narcissistic Nihilist]

Originally posted by vordabois
:-p

So which will it be, Danny? The red pill or the blue pill?
As i said, when I first saw the film. SOmething which to this day still makes my friends chortle. - "You really want a crazy trip?......TAKE THEM BOTH!!"

[Kris Klam]

Originally posted by Ponany
roosevelt = michael moore of blamo

[Static Split Screen]

Uh-oh.

[Hi There, Am Pam]

Originally posted by Narcissistic Nihilist
As i said, when I first saw the film. SOmething which to this day still makes my friends chortle. - "You really want a crazy trip?......TAKE THEM BOTH!!"

Fuck dat, SUPPOSITORY BITCHES!!!!


I <3 Hutch

[Nak Nak]

It's like something out of a novel set in a near future dystopia, wait.

[vordabois]

Originally posted by Nak Nak
It's like something out of a novel set in a near future dystopia, wait.

Roberts isn't so bad.

I guess... Well, if there's a silver lining, given Bush's loathsome pandering to the far-right and the shameless war-hawks (who beat their Bible in the same breath they wish death upon the infide-... er, I mean Muslim extremists), there are a lot of people he could have nominated that were far worse.

He's being examined by some of the more liberal people in Congress, and he is being exposed for who he is, which, from what I've seen, isn't all that bad. But poll after poll shows that people want this man examined by SOMEONE, they are interested and want to be educated, and you can be sure that it's not the conservatives that'll bring all the skeletons out.

I just hope Rehnquist can hold off until the next President gets into office.

In any event, more and more of the American Electorate are coming around to seeing what's going on, and the rage from 9/11 has slowly gone back to reason and logic (though some elements remain). Bush is taking some serious flak regarding Iraq lately (have you heard? His approval ratings are dismally low...)

http://www.pollkatz.homestead.com/files/pollkatzmainGRAPHICS_8911_image001.gif

(...and only falling, obviously), and America, I think, is starting to really get fed up with the political right. It was evident in the reaction to Rove's little problem with illegally outing undercover agents that threatened to expose the lack of evidence for the invasion (which, not surprisingly, has been shoved under the rug by mainstream media). Also, the Social Security fight and things like their caving into the private sector environmentally, their failure on the energy front, their massive spending, their opposition to stem cell research and that whole deal regarding the GOP's attempting to legislate their way into Terry Schiavo's life and death... It's really gotten out of hand. People are starting to wake up to the reality that these people aren't actually doing these things for the good of our nation...

I pretty much always was someone who knew Kerry wasn't going to win before the last election, even though I was hoping otherwise. Certain glimpses came around, Kerry led the polls by a small margin a few times, things were looking unexpectedly optimistic, but I still felt as though America wasn't willing to shed the guy who was there all through 9/11 and (I'll readily admit) acted prudently in the first few months afterwards. But there really is some serious outrage around here now... I'd never have thought things could change so dramatically in one short year. Just two days ago, I was talking to a friend at work, he was bitching about how his parents piss him off because they're so stubbornly "Christian"... I said something to the effect of "Yeah, people like that scare me sometimes," alluding to their political clout. And he was like "nah, don't get me wrong, my parents are really sorry they voted for Bush now". I was taken aback, jaw on the floor... These people are Bush's hardcore base, and he's lost their support?! The sheep are turning away! I mean, that may not seem like a big deal to you (and yeah, it's just one family,) but to me, that's an indication of the general sentiment of the Church they go to... Which is, well, very heartening! Could they be using their brains finally?!

Given recent developments, I firmly believe that Bush will not be able to get a hard-core rightist onto the Court. The people will not let him. If he had nominated anyone more conservative than Roberts, I do not think they would have gotten confirmed. (Hell, Roberts is taking harsh criticism already because of his stance on abortion.)

I'm not really worried. The long-term outlook is good. The pendulum swings both ways in a democratically-elected government, and even though the proof (from actual election figures) is not evident yet (because there have been no significant elections in the last year), I will say -- without any of that 2004 presidential election doubt -- that we've begun to turn in the correct direction. It's not just about the President's election, it's a general feeling of optimism, rationalitiy... A certain reassuring sentiment that's everywhere... Finally.

Thank God. :-p

[Kinbote]

The whole lot of them are political hacks, not authentic jurists.

As political hacks go, though, I quite like that Janice Rogers Brown, about whose appeals court nomination so much controversy floated a bit ago. She hates government as much as I do.

In her own words:

"We no longer find slavery abhorrent. We embrace it. We demand more. Big government is not just the opiate of the masses. It is the opiate: the drug of choice for multinational corporations and single moms; for regulated industries and rugged Midwestern farmers and militant senior citizens."

:love:

[Drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by UncleLester
The whole lot of them are political hacks, not authentic jurists.

As political hacks go, though, I quite like that Janice Rogers Brown, about whose appeals court nomination so much controversy floated a bit ago. She hates government as much as I do.

In her own words:

"We no longer find slavery abhorrent. We embrace it. We demand more. Big government is not just the opiate of the masses. It is the opiate: the drug of choice for multinational corporations and single moms; for regulated industries and rugged Midwestern farmers and militant senior citizens."

:love: She is an absolute gem and would make a damn good replacement for Rehnquist who will retire while Bush is still in office. At this point I'm not sure if that's good or bad. I dread any nominee by Democrats after that turd, Ginsburg.

[vordabois]

Originally posted by Drunkenmaster
Rehnquist will retire while Bush is still in office.

Uh, that's not quite "fact" yet. ;)

[Drunkenmaster]

Okay, I'll wait...

[vordabois]

Originally posted by UncleLester
She hates government as much as I do.

In her own words:

"We no longer find slavery abhorrent. We embrace it. We demand more. Big government is not just the opiate of the masses. It is the opiate: the drug of choice for multinational corporations and single moms; for regulated industries and rugged Midwestern farmers and militant senior citizens."

:love:

No, she doesn't hate government, my good sir. She hates BIG government. ;)

I don't know of anyone that pushes for big government for big government's sake. Do you?

[Kinbote]

The Democratic party until 1994?

[Divine]

what's new?

[vordabois]

Originally posted by UncleLester
The Democratic party until 1994?

Fundamental misunderstandings about the Democratic platform... Oh my.

[Kinbote]

Aw, I'm just yanking your chain, you red you!

[vordabois]

Originally posted by UncleLester
Aw, I'm just yanking your chain, you red you!

"We no longer find slavery abhorrent. We embrace it. We demand more. Big government is not just the opiate of the masses. It is the opiate: the drug of choice for multinational corporations and single moms; for regulated industries and rugged Midwestern farmers and militant senior citizens."

I think she pretty much covered all the ground that needs said. Some claim this idea as "rightist"... nah...

Big government is a serious problem, whether it's big because of private industry's influence or some sort of some populistic element, neither is ideal.

I think that's a given.

(And what happened to "pinko"?) :-p

[Kinbote]

The trouble is, it's self-perpetuating.

[Divine]

hahaha i just fell asleep with a cigarette on my keyboard and burned my finger. i'm so fucked. i think its time for sleep :oh: love you all :-o :-*

[vordabois]

Originally posted by UncleLester
The trouble is, it's self-perpetuating.

Yes. That applies across the board as well.

But that doesn't mean we should do away with government by any stretch of the imagination.

[Kinbote]

I was agreeing with you, sir! God!

One of the things that irks me the most is that when the government implements a program, and the program fails to work, the program is not eliminated and something else tried, or shoulders shrugged or whatever - no, instead the program is given MORE MONEY. And continues to fail, and fail, and is given more money, until it's so entrenched that it can howl for its own continued existence, and somehow we can't imagine life without it. GOD.

[Mary Alice]

Sandra Day O'Connor was awesome. I liked her.
Why do you hate Ginsburg...what did she do?

Rehnquist is a funny, funny guy - Scalia is too, even, but I disagree with a lot of what Rehnquist says and even more with Scalia. But have you ever heard audio recordings of Supreme Court trials? I heard one for some kind of internet pornography thing and it's so funny hearing old men being educated about the internet. They're sharp - they're from a different generation, but they have a good sense of humor about it.

I hope Rehnquist will make it to the end of Bush's term, and I think he wants to, but he is pretty ill and I don't think he will. Sandra O'Connor's husband is ill, that's why I heard she retired.

[Divine]

still not asleep. listen to cold by annie lennox... it's addicting...

[Drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by UncleLester
I was agreeing with you, sir! God!

One of the things that irks me the most is that when the government implements a program, and the program fails to work, the program is not eliminated and something else tried, or shoulders shrugged or whatever - no, instead the program is given MORE MONEY. And continues to fail, and fail, and is given more money, until it's so entrenched that it can howl for its own continued existence, and somehow we can't imagine life without it. GOD. Hmm....social security, anyone?

[vordabois]

Originally posted by Drunkenmaster
Hmm....social security, anyone?

Don't think it's necessary?

[Kinbote]

Fuck the elderly, man!

[vordabois]

Originally posted by UncleLester
Fuck the elderly, man!

[vordabois]

I'm more against the current state of the welfare programs, but those are state issues... :-p

Ohio is entirely too lax with what they're willing to give to assist the poor.

They should make it like the federal WIC program.

[Kinbote]

I was serious!

[Sandinista]

Originally posted by UncleLester
I was agreeing with you, sir! God!

One of the things that irks me the most is that when the government implements a program, and the program fails to work, the program is not eliminated and something else tried, or shoulders shrugged or whatever - no, instead the program is given MORE MONEY. And continues to fail, and fail, and is given more money, until it's so entrenched that it can howl for its own continued existence, and somehow we can't imagine life without it. GOD.

Oh, you mean the 'No Child Left Behind' boondoggle? Ted, there is a global war on terror being waged, and you bad-mouthing the government is just giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Who knows how many deaths of innocents you may have caused by now? Support our faux ranch-living president, even if he is on vacation.

[Kinbote]

Oddly enough, given our reputation for pinkoness, I don't think Massachusetts's welfare program is THAT bad, as such things go. Where have you gone, Bill Weld? Best governor EVER. His two favorite books were The Road to Serfdom and Pale Fire. My kind of guy!

[vordabois]

Originally posted by UncleLester
I was serious!

We can't do that! Good Lord, having these people living in squalor would be a detriment to society, if only morally! I'm not saying that they are entitled to any other benefits than living in a non-impoverished manner, but those people built our nation, and we should show our gratitude.

I know, you may not be hip with that whole "imposing your morality upon me" thing, so I think it would suffice to say that if we let them go, we'd lose more than half of our market pushing for new medical research into prolonging life and dealing with diseases and disorders you yourself may be stricken with!

[Kinbote]

Originally posted by Sandinista
Oh, you mean the 'No Child Left Behind' boondoggle? Ted, there is a global war on terror being waged, and you bad-mouthing the government is just giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Who knows how many deaths of innocents you may have caused by now? Support our faux ranch-living president, even if he is on vacation.

What I also hate is that I dislike the war*, AND taxes; I support gay marriage AND I support deregulation. What the fuck, man!

*While I am not pro-war, I am very strongly anti-anti-war. I hate all those fucking people who, when pressed as to why they're against the Iraq campaign answer "War is bad" and/or "Bush is bad." Either or both of these things may be true, but neither of them are a sufficient basis for a rational opinion.

FUCK.

[Kinbote]

Originally posted by vordabois
We can't do that! Good Lord, having these people living in squalor would be a detriment to society, if only morally! I'm not saying that they are entitled to any other benefits than living in a non-impoverished manner, but those people built our nation, and we should show our gratitude.

I know, you may not be hip with that whole "imposing your morality upon me" thing, so I think it would suffice to say that if we let them go, we'd lose more than half of our market pushing for new medical research into prolonging life and dealing with diseases and disorders you yourself may be stricken with!

If you don't provide for your own retirement, it's your own fault. Those physically/mentally incapable can be covered under the welfare system, the existence of which I actually do accept, on a limited basis.

[Drunkenmaster]

Originally posted by vordabois
Don't think it's necessary? I don't think it's the job of the government (be it state or federal).

[vordabois]

Originally posted by UncleLester
If you don't provide for your own retirement, it's your own fault. Those physically/mentally incapable can be covered under the welfare system, the existence of which I actually do accept, on a limited basis.

And what if those billions in private retirement funds are wiped out by a recession or depression? It's no matter how prepared you are... If you base your retirement funds on the market, you can make money. But, unfortunately, you can lose it, too.

Social Security... The name says it all. It is a rock we can fall back on if things grow desperate. It is a program that is inherently stable and deliberately separate from the market forces, be they wonderfully positive or hopelessly negative.

[vordabois]

Originally posted by Drunkenmaster
I don't think it's the job of the government (be it state or federal).

Man, I could write a book on this.

I guess the most effective thing I can say because I don't have a few hours to sit down and explain:

I think you should read up on the core causes of the Great Depression and how our nation managed to finally crawl out of it. You're right. It IS our job to ensure that we have retirement funds. It IS our job to prepare.

Sometimes, however, saving the money isn't enough. Believing that it is is... well... sort of naiive.

[Drunkenmaster]

I know what caused the great depression. All I'm saying is, government is not RESPONSIBLE for providing money for people to retire. That should be easy enough to understand.

[vordabois]

Originally posted by Drunkenmaster
I know what caused the great depression. All I'm saying is, government is not RESPONSIBLE for providing money for people to retire.

Where is the money going to come from, then?

It was a no-nonsense solution to a problem that was evident: In a situation like that, the government is the only entity that CAN provide money. It is, therefore, its responsibility to do so.

[Drunkenmaster]

When you realize that the government is nothing without the taxes it collects from its citizens (at gunpoint if necessary) then you will see where I'm coming from. The government does almost nothing efficiently. Why should we expect them to provide for our retirement efficiently. Also, why can't people gain assistance from charities rather than government. All I'm saying is that the government is NOT the only answer.

[Kinbote]

"Security" is a myth: impossible. Shit happens, and tough shit if it does.