Iha's Epics

[The Sellout]

Just as important a question

[The Sellout]

i'm kinda joking, if that wasnt clear...

[Liam-M]

youre such a sellout

[Joliet's Green Onions]

crap...

the boy, simply because i've been singing it all week

but Blew Away, Go, ...Said Sadly are also some of my favorite pumpkins songs

[WorldView]

I was thinking this had to be a joke when I opened it up :tongue:

Anyways, I voted for Blew Away since that's my favorite Iha song.

[Rotting Apples]

The Boy- fo sho.

[kendra]

Well, you're a tard and you forgot "Believe" so I voted for "The Boy."

[Dovecoat]

I don't see why it's a joke... Mr. Iha has lots of great songs. I voted for "The Boy", just because... well... yeah. "Blew Away" and "Take Me Down" and so many others are wonderful. But "The Boy" is really rad.

Though "A Night Like This" probably shouldn't count, considering it's a Cure song.

[kendra]

I love you, Dovecoat. Let us marry and run away to...Wales.

[In Dust and Ashes]

wouldn't this do better on the Iha board?

[Eye]

It's a joke because while Iha made some good songs he never really made any epics. The closest thing was co-writing Soma with Billy.

[Dovecoat]

I love you, Dovecoat. Let us marry and run away to...Wales.

Awe! I love you, too! And... Wales. :love:

But yeah... he's really underrated. I'm probably one of only like 5 people in the entire world who actually likes his solo album. Yeah, it's schmaltzy... but I like schmaltz. Besides, schmaltz or not, his songs are SO PRETTY!!!

[Dovecoat]

It's a joke because while Iha made some good songs he never really made any epics. The closest thing was co-writing Soma with Billy.

Yeah, but some of his songs *feel* epic. If "Blew Away" was drawn out for another 4 minutes, it would totally be epic. Er... if that makes sense.

The build up is there, just not the length. If he could be like Billy and learn how to wank away and draw a song out for 30 minutes (I'm looking at you, Gossamer! :mad: ), then he'd have it in the bag.

[Eye]

I think I know what you mean. I know it's a bit simplistic lyrically speaking, but my favorite James Iha song is "The Boy".

Sorry to say that I would probably give James Iha's album a C+ (initially thought it was B-) but then again, Billy's solo record is barely a B- (as in 7.00000). My problem with James' album that it was a bit too uniform in feel and tone. Although I guess what can we expect when the Pumpkins were spreading their dynamic range pretty far, especially during Mellon Collie and most of the songs were not love songs in the traditional sense (sometimes a lot of brooding ;)). I know James did not want to repeat SP, so I guess he didn't have much room to move in that context.

There were some really good tracks on the James' album but I think he would be better served to put some of the songs that were on the Be Strong Now cd single on the album instead. Falling, My Advice and Take Care (Especially the first two) are way better than some of the album songs, like Country Girl for example :P. Just my opinion of course.

[JasonTH79]

"...Said Sadly" is by far my favorite on that list, although "The Boy" is a close second.

[Rotting Apples]

Tis a shame that Summer was not represented in this poll. Such a pretty, pretty song...

[SlowWound]

I would have voted for "summer" if it were listed. Voted for my second choice "Go".

[Dovecoat]

I think I know what you mean. I know it's a bit simplistic lyrically speaking, but my favorite James Iha song is "The Boy".

Sorry to say that I would probably give James Iha's album a C+ (initially thought it was B-) but then again, Billy's solo record is barely a B- (as in 7.00000). My problem with James' album that it was a bit too uniform in feel and tone. Although I guess what can we expect when the Pumpkins were spreading their dynamic range pretty far, especially during Mellon Collie and most of the songs were not love songs in the traditional sense (sometimes a lot of brooding ;)). I know James did not want to repeat SP, so I guess he didn't have much room to move in that context.

There were some really good tracks on the James' album but I think he would be better served to put some of the songs that were on the Be Strong Now cd single on the album instead. Falling, My Advice and Take Care (Especially the first two) are way better than some of the album songs, like Country Girl for example :P. Just my opinion of course.

I actually like "Country Girl". I didn't when I first got the album, but in time... That "oooooo oooooooo ooooooo" is really good when you're falling alseep.

I don't like every song on the album, and I don't like his solo stuff as much as I like the Pumpkins (and in *most* cases, I much prefer Billy's songwriting)... but certain songs, like "See the Sun", "Silver String", "Winter", and "Beauty" are just really good. He DOES have a great sense of melody, albeit maybe a little syrupy at points. And *I* personally think he's a great musician... very delicate and intimate sounding. I love how he can strum a chord 10 times and each time it has a totally different *feel*. Whether that's accidental and by design, I don't know... but it works.

And some gems with the Pumpkins... "The Boy", "Summer", "Take Me Down", "Blew Away"... some major highlights - not just for him, but for the Pumpkins as a whole.

[Joliet's Green Onions]

Tis a shame that Summer was not represented in this poll. Such a pretty, pretty song...


is there an official studio version?

all i've ever found is a live version

[CrestfallenAlex]

is there an official studio version?

all i've ever found is a live version

It's on the Perfect single along with the Daphne Descends remix (which is also really good).

One of my favorite singles, to be sure.

[IAmNotOne]

I didn't vote. I absolutely cannot stand James Iha's voice.

[Avalinaelise]

i voted for "The Boy"...it makes me want to put on some old school rollerskates and go to the roller rink! I love his solo album,my favourite songs are Country Girl and One and Two.

[jovan_loveless]

the boy is the most rocking song that he's done...its definately not "jealousy" off his solo album, which kinda songs like "Umm Bop" by Hanson to me.

If Mr. Iha doesnt have any rockin songs off his next solo album, i'm completely giving up on him.

[0bscured]

the only time iha ever rocked was in the pumpkins. if let it come down is anything to go by, I expect his next album will be the same country pop stuff. it was an alright album, not great, but alright.

i must say though, he had a song called my advice, it was a let it come down b-side. probably his best solo song. i'm surpised no one mentioned it. coincidentally enough, it had the same chord progression as mayonaise. maybe that's why it was awesome.

[kendra]

Hahaha...never noticed that. I guess he was stickin' with what works!

I for one will be surprised if his second album sounds like Let It Come Down. If you take note of the music he's been doing lately, and the songs he's released since 2000, they don't sound like LICD at all...and his voice has changed. I'm kind of anticipating that he would go more alt-country or alt-pop as opposed to singer-songwriter lurvey-durvey, although I could be completely full of shit.

[CrestfallenAlex]

I forget, do we know any sort of timetable for Iha Solo Album #2?

[kendra]

Let's give him a decade or so.

[Bloodstained Jar]

Believe is the only Iha song that I thought was a really great song. The Boy is okay but it is by far and wide the gayest song that the Smashing Pumpkins ever put their name to.

Said Sadly has James's shittiest vocal performance, and well, that's saying a lot. The rest of these songs weren't even worth being recorded.

Of course, that's all my opinion and you don't have to agree with it, but you know, whatever floats your boat.

[kendra]

Said Sadly has James's shittiest vocal performance, and well, that's saying a lot.

Sir, I don't think you have listened to "Take Me Down" closely enough. :lol: (Try not to wince at 1:23ish, 1:36ish, 1:42ish, 1:45ish...1:58ish...2:23ish...oi vey.)

I think his voice is very sweet in "...Said Sadly." No adolescent cracking or fading away, and it compliments Ms. Gordon nicely. Dude's voice was much higher when he was in his early 20's, so it sounds on point for what he had to work with at the time.

[somaziro]

wave song owns

[Eye]

the only time iha ever rocked was in the pumpkins. if let it come down is anything to go by, I expect his next album will be the same country pop stuff. it was an alright album, not great, but alright.

i must say though, he had a song called my advice, it was a let it come down b-side. probably his best solo song. i'm surpised no one mentioned it. coincidentally enough, it had the same chord progression as mayonaise. maybe that's why it was awesome.

Hey, I did mention My Advice in my second reply ;). I said that "Falling" and "My Advice" especially should have been on Let it Come Down instead of some of the other songs on there.

Probably my favorite songs on Let it Come Down were "Sound of Love" and "No One's Gonna Hurt You".

[jovan_loveless]

if you see me falling will you lend a hand....

i like that song and the progression of it

[EdPumpkin]

blew away...duh.

[Bloodstained Jar]

Sir, I don't think you have listened to "Take Me Down" closely enough. :lol: (Try not to wince at 1:23ish, 1:36ish, 1:42ish, 1:45ish...1:58ish...2:23ish...oi vey.)

I think his voice is very sweet in "...Said Sadly." No adolescent cracking or fading away, and it compliments Ms. Gordon nicely. Dude's voice was much higher when he was in his early 20's, so it sounds on point for what he had to work with at the time.

lol

Actually I fucked up there... I meant to say "A Night Like This" was his worst vocal performance. I can't even listen to that shit. As soon as the track changes over and I hear "Saahaay goodbyyye on a niiight like this" I instantaneously scream "FUCK!" and change to the next song as fast as possible.


Anyway... does anyone know how much input James had in writing Mayonaise and Soma? I'm just curious because I really do love both of those songs and if he wrote more parts in those than Billy, that would make me think twice before I rip on him again, heh.

[kendra]

There was a good post on Netphoria that finally (realistically) addresses how much input James had as far as Pumpkins music - in studio or live. I'm repostin' it here, with a link. I thought it was pretty spot-on :yes:

People keep saying that James' influence on the music was limited because Billy gets most song-writing credits, but then I read this:

GW-How do you mesh your guitar style with Billy Corgan's in the Pumpkins?
JI-When I started working with Billy,I was more a rythm player, a supporting guitar player. I've always done what we call drop ins. They're not really solos or rythm parts, but melody lines. I think my playing has gotten better, or at least more creative. Once again it's about what the song needs.

I think these drop ins are a really important part of the Pumpkins sound. The lead parts by the end of Quiet and Geek USA come to mind, as well as the one on I Of The Mourning. Now my question is: I know that James played all those parts live, but did he write them? I remember reading somewhere that James added one of those "drop ins" to Porcelina, yet he gets no credits for that. On Viewphoria, he also plays the lead part by the end of disarm, which is very similar in style to the others I've mentioned. Since it wasn't on the album, it's more likely that James wrote it himself.

I'm starting to think that James actually had more influence than he's given credit for, at least when it comes to arranging the songs. You get the Machina Acoustic Demos and you find a simple version of vanity--then you listen to Machina II and there are a bunch of neat guitar parts that weren't there before. Even on Siamese Dream, where Billy played all the instruments, we don't know how many parts James actually wrote when Billy first brought the chords/lyrics to the band.

What I'm saying here is that just because Billy gets most songwriting credits, it doesn't mean that James didn't do anything. It just means that Billy came up with most chord progressions and lyrics. James gets credit for Mayonaise exactly because he came up with the chord progression, but that doesn't mean it was his only contribution.

Thoughts? If this is true, it's kind of unfair to say that Billy is responsible for all guitar work on Siamese Dream. While it may be true that he recorded all the guitars himself, we know nothing about who actually wrote those parts.

http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=146687

Sorry to link back to Netphoria, but I thought it was an interesting discussion worth posting here also ;)

[Dovecoat]

There was a good post on Netphoria that finally (realistically) addresses how much input James had as far as Pumpkins music - in studio or live. I'm repostin' it here, with a link. I thought it was pretty spot-on :yes:



http://forums.netphoria.org/showthread.php?t=146687

Sorry to link back to Netphoria, but I thought it was an interesting discussion worth posting here also ;)

Eh.

Demos are just that... demos. Just because a demo doesn't have all the embellishments that a final recording does doesn't mean anything... coz they aren't supposed to. They're sketches of a song... thus, Billy usually does them on acoustic guitar.

All those extra parts that end up on a finished recording could very well have been envisioned from the beginning.

That said, most lead/drop-in parts are improvised on recordings. There's a difference between what works live in a two guitar setting and what works in the studio with umpteen guitars. "Siamese Dream" in particular is notorious for having several guitars going at once in a way that can't really be completely duplicated (or conceived of) in a live setting. They're totally studio creations. Likewise, add all of those parts playing off each other, and the fills/"drop-ins" would sound different in comparison, and would thus have to be adapted from their conception in a 2 guitar set-up.

Not to say that James didn't help arrange everything... but anything Billy played he'd have the final say on. I'm of the belief that James actually had more to do with recording the album than Billy will admit. I doubt D'arcy did much of anything on the album... but I think James had way more say in the actual recording process than he gets credit for (so maybe he only played one guitar part per song and Billy played the other 20... I still think James' print is all over a lot of the songs... notable exceptions being Spaceboy, Luna, Disarm, and Cherub Rock... those all sound like almost total Billy).